Band of Brothers or The Wire?

[Bullitt68]

Seinfeld is the G.O.A.T.

 

[Aegon Spengler]

If I want to watch a documentary on life on the streets, then I'll watch a documentary on life on the streets. I watch film and television because it's not a documentary, it's not "reality." The Wire conflated the notion of "realism" with the most stripped down form of dramaturgy imaginable; as such, it is immensely unsatisfying and uninteresting from a formal/narratological perspective.

Once again, vague statements and accusations without any real merit or basis. Explain how the wire is a documentary about life on the streets? How does it conflate the notion of realism? You will have an exceptionally weak argument if you actually attempt to make that point, because, The Wire is very clearly not a documentary about life on the streets, nor does it pretend to be.

Any show that would bring in over the top characters like Brother Mouzone is certainly not attempting to mask itself as documentary. A show that has police officers who invent serial killers, or legalize drugs, does not consider itself a documentary. And while "life on the streets", as you put it, might be one thematic component of The Wire, its hardly the whole picture. The dramaturgy, the structure of the show, is as a portrait of a city. It adds layers to that portrait until it fills itself - until the painting is complete and there is nowhere left to go. At the end, you either got it, or you didn't - and in that, your own subjective opinion of what you just saw comes into play. You didn't like it, and that's fine. But you vaguely refer to it as dramatalogically inept by calling it a "documentary about life on the streets" without proving or even pretending you need to prove that this allegory adequately describes what The Wire is or what its writers were attempting to do.

What I seek in fictional narrative is emotional truth. The Wire was too focused on the representation of reality as opposed to allegorically highlighting universal truths of the human condition. Nothing was philosophically illuminating about the show, none of the themes on which it focused were anything new (city schools suck, politics is crooked, cops are run-of-the-mill bureaucracies, even the good grapple with evil, blah blah blah) and, moreover, their expression wasn't inspired or entertaining.

In what way was the wire "too focused on the representation of reality"? I don't see how you can back that up. Because characters were killed off in a brutal and realistic way - the show was TOO FOCUSED on a representation of reality vs highlighting the truths of the human condition? Or, is that not what you meant?

Give me something I can dig my teeth into here. What was it about the show that made it too focused on realism to the determent of allegorical truth? I and many others found The Wire quite insightful, for me, simply because it took the time and care to painstakingly build and piece together a world I have very little experience with - the police force, labour Unions, the drug trade - I got to experience those worlds and their inter-connectivity through the point of view of distinct, flawed, human characters who struggled with their decisions just as I would if I had been put in their position.

When I look at Ziggy on the docks I know his frustration because I've been in a world where I'm the guy who makes people laugh and can't get ahead at work - and I've seen men like Frank Zabatka around my city, I know people like them without ever really getting to know them. Union boys who want to get a job done and then go home and have a smoke. - After The Wire, I felt a little more connected to those people. I, personally, was able to gleam quite a bit about the modern human condition from The Wire. I was given a taste, brief and fleeting but a taste, of a life not my own and I empathized with people who made decisions that, if I were to read about in the newspaper, I might otherwise have no sympathy for and write off.

And, Because we deal with some familiar themes (crooked police, political, etc) doesn't mean A) those issues are somehow off limits or B) that anyone else has covered this stuff in as through and entertaining a way as The Wire has. Through and entertaining according to my personal standards and also the standards of virtually every TV critic or show business professional.

Good God no, especially once he went to prison. Was there a greater certainty in that show's entire run than the stupendously obvious trajectory that storyline was going to take? And what's more, it dragged on and on and on and on until they finally killed him, to the point where, once it happened, all I felt was relief that I wouldn't have to deal with that fucking character and his stupid whiny storyline anymore.

Okay, that's a specific example, you've got me there. But I take issue with your perspective here. Knowing that D'Angelo would probably die was, fair enough, predictable, but the carrying out of that death was not. And if you were invested in that character (you weren't, I and many other were), you hoped against hope that it wouldn't happen. And further - Stringer and Avon's relationship and the tension that murder created (tension for the audience) was fantastic.

The scene between Stringer and Avon when Stringer flat out admits what he'd done to D'Angelo, it wouldn't have been possible without Wallace's death, without D'Angelo's death, without Avon's taunting and his prison sentence - and in my opinion, that was one of the shows strongest moments.

So sure, D'Angelo dying might have been predictable, but what the fallout would be, what the consequences of that death might entail, were hardly predictable and kept me glued to my seat.

 

[Keilza]

The discrepancy between what people say and what's actually there is so astronomically enormous that it would be funny if it wasn't so obnoxious. You should definitely check it out just to have an opinion, just try to tune out people like [B]Keilza[/B] and assess it on its own terms, not the terms set down by its legion of fans.[/QUOTE]

Haha and there I was trying not to be [I]that [/I]guy.

I wasn't trying to make the show out to be something it's not, just voicing my opinion that it has a number of things going for it that other shows might not do so well. Both are great shows, you'd be missing out to skip either one.

 

[AGGAMEMNON66]

Band of Brothers or The Wire?

Kind of a dumb question being that one is a mini series and the other an actual series

 

[JohnnyDrama]

Well if you wanted to wrap up all of WWII you could watch band of brothers then the pacific. Then the wire of course.

 

[Jimmy Needles]

The Wire is one of those shows no matter how many people recommend it I still won't watch it, no desire to even start. Band of Brothers I'll probably get around to eventually, I only do one show at a time and right now I''m watching breaking bad

 

[Fizzee Water]

The Wire is so overrated.

It's great, fantastic even; but come on. It's not THAT good. Season 2 is actually pretty bad and the kids in Season 4 are the only remotely interesting thing about that season.

1, 3 and 5 are riveting though.

 

[new_mexico1]

The Wire is so overrated.

It's great, fantastic even; but come on. It's not THAT good. Season 2 is actually pretty bad and the kids in Season 4 are the only remotely interesting thing about that season.

1, 3 and 5 are riveting though.

Watching Frank Sobotka give everything to save a dying way of life was far from bad. A tragic tale.

 

[new_mexico1]

You say that kind of thing every time, "ooh I don't like the wire and i'm persecuted for it" and then you follow that up by saying "there was no payoff anywhere in the show", "the characters were bland and boring and gave you no reason to care about them" and you also say "the acting and the writing was terrible" but provide zero examples to back up your points. You have nothing to go on but a bunch of rambling and vague statements about what you don't like in the show.

I think its cool you don't like the wire, it's not your thing and that's cool. But you've never been able to back up a single criticism with a concrete point, and it comes across as very silly.

Just watch more amazing, non predictable episodes of Law and Order.

 

[Benoco]

Documentary is the new word for realistic drama?

 

[new_mexico1]

And yeah, there is a lot of hyperbole. Obviously it doesn't go for everybody, but I think many have began to judge it unfairly. The best thing you can do when watching The Wire for the first time is to be patient and forget all the stuff from these threads. The Wire isn't gonna give you some epiphany, it's not gonna change your life, etc. But compared to all the ridiculous cliffhanger riddled tv series that are out now and in the past, The Wire is one of the greatest tv series ever, if not the greatest. It doesn't need to give you some religious experience or whatever to be legitimately compared to other tv series.

 

[new_mexico1]

Documentary is the new word for realistic drama?

It is when you're used to tv series with cliffhangers after every episode and suspense making up 90% of the story.

 

[Cazadores]

Can't say I'm too impressed with the wire so far. I already know I won't like it as much as Breaking Bad, Dexter, or Homeland, but it's interesting enough for me to continue on watching.

Best show of all time? Lol, give me a break. There's really nothing to get overly excited about ever. It's as if you are awaiting a big cliche to take place. I respect it's reality, and it works. It's keeping me interested, but that's it.

 

[Captain Davis]

Band of Brothers. You'll be a better person after watching it.

 

[WARserra]

I like The Wire a lot (aside from the last season) but it's nothing compared to BoB.

 

[Benoco]

It is when you're used to tv series with cliffhangers after every episode and suspense making up 90% of the story.

Heavy use of cliffhangers is the first sign of weak writers or aiming for a stupid audience. I cannot watch Breaking Bad or Homeland.

 

[wisdom blows]

Not drinking the Kool-Aid = Blind, religious, crazy hate?

You ever wonder why all threads about The Wire amount to nothing more than drooling fans slobbering all over it? Because anything less is not only not tolerated, it's tantamount to blasphemy, and the people who aren't members of the cult don't have the patience to talk to a brick wall. Saying anything about The Wire that is less than "The Wire is the GOAT" is a sin that warrants eternal damnation. I know of no other piece of media that has yielded such an insulated cult (in every sense of that word) of intolerant and close-minded fans, which is made all the more perplexing when you consider that the show at whose alter these fans are worshiping isn't even very good, much less worthy of even being considered among the GOAT.

But hey, freedom of religion, right? You can like The Wire all you want, just so long as you leave me my little piece of land where I can spout off my craziness :wink:

lol, arent you the guy who worships christopher meloni and thinks law and order is like the greatest show ever?:icon_lol:

 

[WARserra]

SVU is fantastic.

 

[Teefs]

lol, arent you the guy who worships christopher meloni and thinks law and order is like the greatest show ever?:icon_lol:

If you're going to call him out on that, why gloss over the absurdly pretentious Alec Baldwin quote in his sig space?

 

[wisdom blows]

there is absolutely nothing wrong with cliffhangers if the rest of the show is rounded and well written. the cliffhangers in breaking bad serve to up the already prevalent intensity. not to mention, some shows are going for suspense, so lets not hold that against them. there is a difference between that, and adding suspense to make up for bad writing, acting, or character/plot development.