Baltimore getting "progressive"

[UpaLoompa]

I also think if u took all the money out of drug dealing that the inner city gangsters would find some other unpleasant and illegal way to make money. Robbing houses in the suburbs or something

If you take the money out of drug dealing you have to deal with the factors that contributed to the decline of the inner city and the adoption of drug dealing in the first place. If there continue to be no legal economic opportunities, yes some other crime will be necessary. Currently we're in a negative feedback loop where legal economic opportunities were taken away, a drug black market emerged, was encouraged, and took root. That black market engendered considerable crime (which is what black markets do) which prevents the emergence and persistence of legal economic opportunities.

 

[UpaLoompa]

Most of the strippers there are addicts

That's pretty much a general truism.

 

[clmetal]

Spot on.

All hard problems to solve

 

[clmetal]

That's pretty much a general truism.

I mean like zombies. The nicer strip clubs are on thing but the ones on baltimore street are the ones with crazy opiate eyes.

 

[clmetal]

If you take the money out of drug dealing you have to deal with the factors that contributed to the decline of the inner city and the adoption of drug dealing in the first place. If there continue to be no legal economic opportunities, yes some other crime will be necessary. Currently we're in a negative feedback loop where legal economic opportunities were taken away, a drug black market emerged, was encouraged, and took root. That black market engendered considerable crime (which is what black markets do) which prevents the emergence and persistence of legal economic opportunities.

I think a lot of it is culture and attitude and perception.

These areas are only a few miles away from areas with businesses and they have good public transportation.

Their commute to an area with jobs wouldn't be all that much different than commutes everyone else has. That's true about so many inner cities, for $2 they can go to skyscrapers or malls.

Obviously decisions like getting your neck tattooed isn't a good one, people are nudged by their appearance

 

[Social Distance Warrior]

I think a lot of it is culture and attitude and perception.

These areas are only a few miles away from areas with businesses and they have good public transportation.

Their commute to an area with jobs wouldn't be all that much different than commutes everyone else has. That's true about so many inner cities, for $2 they can go to skyscrapers or malls.

Obviously decisions like getting your neck tattooed isn't a good one, people are nudged by their appearance

People drastically overlook, and underestimate the importance of personal decisions.

Like neck tattoos or tattoos on your hands or face.

Or deciding to impregnate someone before the age of 17, or having a child before then...

and of course, choosing a life of crime, like dealing/selling drugs. A felony conviction can fu*k up your future.

 

[panamaican]

I think a lot of it is culture and attitude and perception.

These areas are only a few miles away from areas with businesses and they have good public transportation.

Their commute to an area with jobs wouldn't be all that much different than commutes everyone else has. That's true about so many inner cities, for $2 they can go to skyscrapers or malls.

Obviously decisions like getting your neck tattooed isn't a good one, people are nudged by their appearance

Being able to get to businesses isn't the same thing as those businesses being in a position to hire.

 

[panamaican]

If you take the money out of drug dealing you have to deal with the factors that contributed to the decline of the inner city and the adoption of drug dealing in the first place. If there continue to be no legal economic opportunities, yes some other crime will be necessary. Currently we're in a negative feedback loop where legal economic opportunities were taken away, a drug black market emerged, was encouraged, and took root. That black market engendered considerable crime (which is what black markets do) which prevents the emergence and persistence of legal economic opportunities.

It's more substantial than just that though. But generally, that's about right - even if you removed the drug market, it wouldn't change the economics of the area and so people would still need to find a way to make a living.

Drug markets really should be thought of the same way we think of every other industry, except for the fact that it gets you locked up. But for whatever reason people seem incapable/unwilling to apply the same economic principles and theories to the rise/persistence of a drug market and simply default to culture and character conversations. Weird.

But what's weirdest of all? That the supporters of marijuana see the economic value of drug markets to the state when they justify legalization but they continue to label the current sellers with character flaws that they don't extend to the current consumers. It's almost as if they're selectively applying economic arguments based on who is using/selling/profiting.

 

[clmetal]

Being able to get to businesses isn't the same thing as those businesses being in a position to hire.

Well thats where the affluent live and work, and of course they also come to the buildings in baltimore to work. The businesses around them in the inner city are often run by immigrant families that don't hire.

Is it that unreasonable that they travel for work? Certainly the approach after the freddy gray death hasn't worked out too well

 

[panamaican]

Well thats where the affluent live and work, and of course they also come to the buildings in baltimore to work. The businesses around them in the inner city are often run by immigrant families that don't hire.

Is it that unreasonable that they travel for work? Certainly the approach after the freddy gray death hasn't worked out too well

I didn't say it was unreasonable to travel for work. I said that simply being willing to travel for work doesn't guarantee that there are businesses hiring there. There are only so many buildings that need cleaning companies, only so many retail shops that need additional cashiers, etc.

I think people overestimate the amount of available jobs in many urban areas relative to the population, for those without upper level educations. That's not even a poor vs. middle class thing.

 

[OldGoat]

Those of you who are basically laughing about this, what do you think the causes are? What do you think possible solutions are?

For both I'd say it ties in large part to our drug laws and needing to address that topic in a serious manner.

Drug laws? Perhaps. But I think it's the result of counterproductive social policy.

Eliminate MW, increase EITC or a similar wealth redistribution scheme, education reform is key, treat dependency as a medical condition.

In other words socialism that works for the people. At the moment we have socialism that works for the power structure.

There will always be a portion of the population in a global economy that literally cannot compete if there is a wage floor. So let them earn their economic worth and give them opportunities to increase their worth. However, the reality is some chunk of people are going to need a check. Or they will live desperate lives.

 

[panamaican]

Drug laws? Perhaps. But I think it's the result of counterproductive social policy.

Eliminate MW, increase EITC or a similar wealth redistribution scheme, education reform is key, treat dependency as a medical condition.

In other words socialism that works for the people. At the moment we have socialism that works for the power structure.

There will always be a portion of the population in a global economy that literally cannot compete if there is a wage floor. So let them earn their economic worth and give them opportunities to increase their worth. However, the reality is some chunk of people are going to need a check. Or they will live desperate lives.

Concise and to the point. I like it.

 

[Denter]

Those of you who are basically laughing about this, what do you think the causes are? What do you think possible solutions are?

For both I'd say it ties in large part to our drug laws and needing to address that topic in a serious manner.

Just curious, but why do you think it is so violent?

Are any of your answers cultural or biological? If not, do you think it is in man's nature to be peaceful?

 

[klnOmega]

Police are probably scared to even patrol the neighborhoods or respond to calls.

First, everyone there hates you and you have big target on your back. Second, if god forbid, you had to shoot someone, expect to be fired, prosecuted, and then spend the rest of your life looking over your shoulder.

It would be easier to just ignore the crime.

 

[Scerpi]

It's time....

for

Hamsterdam!!

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

Man the US is really fucked up.....pretty much everyone has a gun and isnt afraid to use it for the slightest reason

You know nothing about the US. I've been living here for forty years and haven't seen a gun if it wasn't on an officer.
If you don't know what you're talking about, feel free to educate yourself or you'll wind up sounding stupid with posts like that.

 

[Mark Hunts FIST]

I think decriminalizing would reduce violent crime. Previous experiments have demonstrated that to be the case both in the US (prohibition) and elsewhere.


Are those red caps or blue (I never know what the hell is being sold in The Wire except that crack isn't a major one)?
And yes, it is a hell of a lot easier to regulate things when they're legal versus when everything is done in a violent black market. We also would be better able to treat addiction if being addicted wasn't also a crime.

I have zero interest in living in a country that legalizes crack,heorin and meth. More junkies are not the answer.

 

[panamaican]

Just curious, but why do you think it is so violent?

Are any of your answers cultural or biological? If not, do you think it is in man's nature to be peaceful?

I know you weren't addressing me but this is my understanding.

Whenever you have a marketplace centered around illegal activity, one of the biggest hurdles is enforcement of contract and other "rights". The participants can't go to the courts and assert a breach of contract or trademark protections or antitrust violations.

So they have to resolve their differences amongst themselves and force is always the way it's done. People in legal business also rely on force but the force comes from the government on one party's side against the other. Without the government acting as a neutral and controlled applier of force, the parties essentially resolve difficult decisions with private force. And the problem with private force is that the other guy is free to respond in kind. And the other guy will respond because his livelihood is what's at stake. The same way a corporation will file litigation to protect illegal encroachment on market share.

 

[Social Distance Warrior]

Just curious, but why do you think it is so violent?

Are any of your answers cultural or biological? If not, do you think it is in man's nature to be peaceful?

it's mostly upbringing and cultural..

if you are raised in an environment without a parent, or authority figure to tell you what's wrong vs what's right, you will grow up pretty fu*ked up...and then you compound that with the "I don't give a fu*k" mentality that is glamorized by the gangsta rap degenerate culture, you'll get what you see in Baltimore, Chicago, etc..

I guarantee most of these criminals come from broken homes without fathers.

 

[UpaLoompa]

Just curious, but why do you think it is so violent?

Are any of your answers cultural or biological? If not, do you think it is in man's nature to be peaceful?

Same reasons prohibition was so violent, pan's post sums it up pretty well. There's also the additional contributor of having to deal with the possibility of competitors, clients, and employees dealing with the police--violence being one way to address that. Is that cultural? Sure, it's the standard culture of criminal markets. You can see it among gangs in the 1920's in regards to the illegal liquor trade, you can see it in the trafficking of opium the century before that, etc. etc.

Your last question is a bit unclear, we clearly have the potential for peaceful and violent behavior. We're pretty good at both.