Bad Chin or Bad Defense? you tell me

[GoshiShun17]

I'm tired of the "bad" or "worn out" chin explanation being so loosely thrown around. I think it often discredits the winner of the fight and gives too much respect to the person who got finished.

Yes some fighters are blessed/cursed with the ability or they just have the heart and toughness to absorb a lot of punishment without quitting or staying down. Some can take shots to the head and chin better. But even the best of yhem are susceptible to being clipped by shots that they don't see coming or aren't prepared to absorb.

Guys with great chins even to this day, like Anderson Silva, Mark Hunt etc. have all been clipped and put lights out eating flush shots that they didn't see coming.

People talk about Luke's chin has gone to shit. NO, his defense has become SHIT. And defense is a skill. How many people could eat the shots Luke has taken in his losses and not be badly, BADLY hurt? No one.

I also see people often discredit KG's win over Bisping. Yes it is a fact that the fight should not have been sanctioned. But that does not change the fact that it was a beautifully set up counter shot. At no point in Bisping's career could he have taken that flush.

Now people are questioning Rob's chin. I believe Rob has an ok chin. When people talk about that second Romero fight, that was NOT Rob having a great iron chin. That was Rob being EXTREMELY resilient and having no quit in him. But everytime Romero touched that chin with a counter shot that he didn't see coming, he got dropped or did the stanky leg. Yes Romero has power, but it takes more than power to keep a guy like Rob down. Same with Israel. He cracked Rob with counters that he was NOT prepared to defend. Israel being the much more technical striker was able to find those defensive holes much easier than Romero. So it was not a case of Romero wearing down Rob's chin.

 

[GoshiShun17]

Now I'm aware that your body and chin does deteriorate over time. But that becomes more evident when you are getting hurt by glancing shots.

 

[Reydereyes]

What about those who have bad chin AND bad defense?

 

[linvillegorge]

A bit of A, a bit of B. It doesn't have to be either or.

 

[GoshiShun17]

Pardon the length of the OP but this thread was long overdue. Some people hail "Prime" Luke as one of the most skilled 185ers ever. And yes he had good skills. But like I said defense is a skill too. That's why he did not stay champ for long.

 

[OldBoy91]

Bad defense can lead to a bad chin, and bad defense can come about due to age and slowed reflexes, taking more shots clean. Lots of younger guys look like they have solid chins because they have good reflexes and are able to roll with punches easier. Then get older and eat more clean shots to the chin and have their lights put out more often.

 

[linvillegorge]

Pardon the length of the OP but this thread was long overdue. Some people hail "Prime" Luke as one of the most skilled 185ers ever. And yes he had good skills. But like I said defense is a skill too. That's why he did not stay champ for long.

I think his ego is the biggest issue. Guys like him and Overeem have to be a special kind of stupid. Here you are out there knowing you don't have the world's best chin having had your lights out out numerous times but you're fighting cocky with a blatant disregard toward defense like you're prime Mark Hunt. It's never shocks anyone when(except themselves evidently) guys like that get slept.

 

[DOMMA]

Guys like Penn, Diaz, Gastemlum, Hunt, Henderson, Edgar, Jon Jones and many others could all eat multiple huge shots and continue fighting. In a high level,15 min fight, you are going to eat a few flush shots. Guys like Rockhold and Garbrandt can no longer withstand any flush shots. They both should move on to another profession before CTE.

 

[GoshiShun17]

Bad defense can lead to a bad chin, and bad defense can come about due to age and slowed reflexes, taking more shots clean. Lots of younger guys look like they have solid chins because they have good reflexes and are able to roll with punches easier. Then get older and eat more clean shots to the chin and have their lights put out more often.

Truth.

 

[Hirashin]

Rob's chin sux big time. Blame his mother for bad genes or Romero.

 

[GoshiShun17]

Guys like Penn, Diaz, Gastemlum, Hunt, Henderson, Edgar, Jon Jones and many others could all eat multiple huge shots and continue fighting. In a high level,15 min fight, you are going to eat a few flush shots. Guys like Rockhold and Garbrandt can no longer withstand any flush shots. They both should move on to another profession before CTE.

But all those guys can be badly hurt or KOed by shots they aren't prepared to absorb. Many on your list have been.

 

[Cpt Migraine]

I kind of a agree.. There are some monstrous chins, lineker, condit, nelson, hunt etc but i*m not sure they are the ones to compare to.. there are also fighters who's had fights where their chin is rediculous.. ex dong vs polo..

People generally like to shit on fighters and will find the tiniest flaw and make it a big problem to the point where they should probably hang em up..

 

[BJpencil]

I'm tired of the "bad" or "worn out" chin explanation being so loosely thrown around. I think it often discredits the winner of the fight and gives too much respect to the person who got finished.

Yes some fighters are blessed/cursed with the ability or they just have the heart and toughness to absorb a lot of punishment without quitting or staying down. Some can take shots to the head and chin better. But even the best of yhem are susceptible to being clipped by shots that they don't see coming or aren't prepared to absorb.

Guys with great chins even to this day, like Anderson Silva, Mark Hunt etc. have all been clipped and put lights out eating flush shots that they didn't see coming.

People talk about Luke's chin has gone to shit. NO, his defense has become SHIT. And defense is a skill. How many people could eat the shots Luke has taken in his losses and not be badly, BADLY hurt? No one.

I also see people often discredit KG's win over Bisping. Yes it is a fact that the fight should not have been sanctioned. But that does not change the fact that it was a beautifully set up counter shot. At no point in Bisping's career could he have taken that flush.

Now people are questioning Rob's chin. I believe Rob has an ok chin. When people talk about that second Romero fight, that was NOT Rob having a great iron chin. That was Rob being EXTREMELY resilient and having no quit in him. But everytime Romero touched that chin with a counter shot that he didn't see coming, he got dropped or did the stanky leg. Yes Romero has power, but it takes more than power to keep a guy like Rob down. Same with Israel. He cracked Rob with counters that he was NOT prepared to defend. Israel being the much more technical striker was able to find those defensive holes much easier than Romero. So it was not a case of Romero wearing down Rob's chin.

Multiple factors. Guys like Max don't understand the cumulative effect of head trauma. Combo of Izzy's precision and timing with Rob's head trauma courtesy of Romero. It's not black and white.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

I look at it as three different things, defense, durability and recovery. If you are bad at 2 out of 3 you're probably known for having a bad chin.

Whittaker's chin isn't bad but I would imagine it isn't as good as it used to be after his 2 fights with Romero, he was also coming forward when Izzy KOed him so he ran into the punch.

 

[GoshiShun17]

Rob's chin sux big time. Blame his mother for bad genes or Romero.

His chin is no worse than the next man's. Especially considering the weight class he fights in. But Rob is taking counter shots flush on the button. Literally getting his chin checked. It's just that overall he had a striking advantage over many at 185.

 

[sampuncher]

It's a bit of both but look at guys like Hendo and Chuck, both had very solid chins and once they had that big KO to themselves their chins didn't really manage to hold up. Mousasi from memory got Hendo with a jab and then finished him with strikes. No way would that have happened years prior.

 

[faustian]

I think his ego is the biggest issue. Guys like him and Overeem have to be a special kind of stupid. Here you are out there knowing you don't have the world's best chin having had your lights out out numerous times but you're fighting cocky with a blatant disregard toward defense like you're prime Mark Hunt. It's never shocks anyone when(except themselves evidently) guys like that get slept.

Both Reem and Rockhold are hyper offensive strikers and you can't be both hyper offensive and soundly defensive at the same time. It's not fighting cocky imo but rather fighting aggressive because that aggressive style is just who these guys are

Although I agree that there should be some self-awareness involved in analyzing and appropriately adjusting your own fight style but that's a lot easier to do in training vs executing it in your actions/reactions in the moment inside the cage

 

[Medulla Omoplata]

defense is for pussies

 

[GoshiShun17]

I think his ego is the biggest issue. Guys like him and Overeem have to be a special kind of stupid. Here you are out there knowing you don't have the world's best chin having had your lights out out numerous times but you're fighting cocky with a blatant disregard toward defense like you're prime Mark Hunt. It's never shocks anyone when(except themselves evidently) guys like that get slept.

I think it's less arrogance and moreso bad habits. Overeem definitely is an example of chin being shattered. He has been stiffened numerous times. No defense can help him.

 

[Deleted member 510671]

Lol, Blachowicz has hit tons of guys flush with hooks without them going down. You are cherrypicking and assuming what Luke gets knocked out with is something no one has ever eaten before. His knockout tolerance is obviously lower. Luke gets knocked out with shots that have hit other guys and done nothing many, many times. What you considered a "good shot" landed on some fighter, but where you thought nothing of it after, probably had enough force to KO Rockhold.

There are countless physiological factors that goes into chin strength. Head breadth, gonial angle, jaw breadth, temporalis muscles, masseter muscles, neck muscles.

Luke clearly doesn't have the skull/facial structure to take shots. He has a gracile, narrow and elongated head.

Almost every fighter gets hit flush a couple of times each fight. There is no avoiding it.

If the force is enough to rattle your brain, "muh defense" will only do so much. Watch Costa vs Uriah Hall or JDS vs Struve to see shots KO'ing someone through the guard. Countless headkick examples of that as well.