Backyard Tapout Fighter Vs. Jiu-Jitsu Competitor

Judo Bounce said:
I don't think its the fact that they grapple in the back yard. I think its the attitude that some carry with them. They get very arrogant by making outrageous claims such as tapping out actual BJJ practitioners. It belittles the efforts of those that actually take the art seriously.

Whether you like the motives of the TS or not, in the end this guy was humbled. I think he's better off for it than staying in the delusional state he was in. Whether he continues his backyard grappling or actually gets proper instruction now, he won't go around thinking that he'll be tapping out anyone and everyone under a BB. He has a better grasp of what he's actually accomplishing. In short, some people just need a reality check.
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You know, I occasionally run into people who think they could kick my ass for whatever reason. They're "street fighters" or former wrestlers or... whatever. It's curious that I have no urge to prove myself against them. Why bother, exactly?

I looked at the guys channel. I watched his videos. I don't see anything on there where they are talking any shit, or showing any of this alleged "attitude." I just see some guys who get together and grapple for the fun of it.

I watched the OP's video. I didn't see anyone with a shitty attitude. I didn't see the guy talking shit. I didn't see him being a poor sport when he lost. He just looked like he was having a good time to me.

Even if the guy DID talk trash, why is it that people feel so threatened? I can think of a dozen activities right off the top of my head that people talk trash about. Yet I don't remember seeing many, if any, videos of dedicated practitioners of the art - whatever it may be- showing up in an effort to prove them wrong. Why? Because those who know, know. And those who don't make very little difference.

I just made this argument in another thread, but I'll make it again here. People generally practice martial arts for three reasons.

1) Because it's fun.
2) For self defense.
3) For fitness reasons.

Now, do a search on these forums about the effectiveness of BJJ in a street fight and you will find countless posts from various Sherdoggers stating that they don't do BJJ for self defense, and that the best defense is simply to run away. This would suggest that they participate in BJJ because it is fun, because they want to get into shape, or some combination of the two. Why is it then, that when someone wants to participate in backyard grappling for the same reason, it's an issue?

Anyone who trains is going to look at these guys videos and know that they're just fucking off. Even if they were talking shit, which I have yet to see evidence of, the need to respond elevates their claims from the ridiculous, to the plausible. Who are they going to convince, exactly?
 
MMMFood said:
hey he tapped out benson henderson at grappler's quest not bad

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In both videos I can tell he has a really tight left triangle. I like seeing good people grapple against guys that may not even train, just because it can give you a good idea of how untrained people move.
 
Darkslide632 said:
You know, I occasionally run into people who think they could kick my ass for whatever reason. They're "street fighters" or former wrestlers or... whatever. It's curious that I have no urge to prove myself against them. Why bother, exactly?

I looked at the guys channel. I watched his videos. I don't see anything on there where they are talking any shit, or showing any of this alleged "attitude." I just see some guys who get together and grapple for the fun of it.

I watched the OP's video. I didn't see anyone with a shitty attitude. I didn't see the guy talking shit. I didn't see him being a poor sport when he lost. He just looked like he was having a good time to me.

Even if the guy DID talk trash, why is it that people feel so threatened? I can think of a dozen activities right off the top of my head that people talk trash about. Yet I don't remember seeing many, if any, videos of dedicated practitioners of the art - whatever it may be- showing up in an effort to prove them wrong. Why? Because those who know, know. And those who don't make very little difference.

I just made this argument in another thread, but I'll make it again here. People generally practice martial arts for three reasons.

1) Because it's fun.
2) For self defense.
3) For fitness reasons.

Now, do a search on these forums about the effectiveness of BJJ in a street fight and you will find countless posts from various Sherdoggers stating that they don't do BJJ for self defense, and that the best defense is simply to run away. This would suggest that they participate in BJJ because it is fun, because they want to get into shape, or some combination of the two. Why is it then, that when someone wants to participate in backyard grappling for the same reason, it's an issue?

Anyone who trains is going to look at these guys videos and know that they're just fucking off. Even if they were talking shit, which I have yet to see evidence of, the need to respond elevates their claims from the ridiculous, to the plausible. Who are they going to convince, exactly?
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"We came across a backyard fight video that made us laugh soooooo hard but after looking through a few videos they showed a video of one of their guys tapping a so called jiu-jitsu fighter."


We're arguing two different things. You're arguing about those were grappling for fun with egos in check. The above quote made me think otherwise. Though if you realize I'm arguing about arrogant backyard grapplers then I don't see how being humbled with a roll with a purple belt isn't beneficial. My point was regardless of how or why they rolled, they had a better understanding about what they were accomplishing. You asked why bother? For their benefit. They'll be better people afterwards.
 
TrumpetDan said:
Ok...sean...you are a horrible story teller. haha. This is the deal

The guy in the video was a pretty cool guy. He seemed humble and willing to learn. He even came to our gym a few times after but couldnt due to money. This is just the only video evidence of us attending the 'fight club'

Background:

Sean and I were killing time in between our morning and afternoon training. We searched Craigslist for "jiu jitsu" and came across a whole bunch of postings on this 'backyard fight club' in a few of the posts they were bragging about how they tapped jiu jitsu competitors and out boxed boxers. Included were links of them tapping jiu jitsu guys, which it looked to be somebody that had less than a month of training.

Things along the lines of this were linked in every post:

They posted a phone number and in our boredom called it. They said they were training in 20 min so we decided to go. We told them we had some experience grappling. We drove to my house and picked up some puzzle mats and headed there. No way I was rolling on the carpet in the video.

It was lead by 2 brothers which were clearly the ones making all of the noise on craigslist. We started by saying that we had grappling experience and they asked us to show a few moves. I showed a super basic sweep from the closed guard and I think sean showed an armlock or something. They did the move maybe 5-6 times. We explained that we saw them on youtube and offered some advice on some of the basic positional concepts behind jiu jitsu. They asked to roll.

Sean went first with one of the brothers. Sean took it super super easy. He was just flow training and the guy gased in maybe 2 min. I think he got 10 taps in 5 min if memory serves.

I roll with the other brother..which was more of the leader. From the get go he jumps super aggressive for a guillitine and i just move and pass guard really slow. He grabs a headlock from bottom side control and squeezes with all of his might. I move to mount with the headlock still on a la old school gracie self defense stuff. I wait very patiently trying to relax the neck as he was squeezing really hard. I didnt want to cross face followed by armbar because I wanted to not be seen as going hard on them.

I wait 45 seconds and his brother yells "dude...i dont think you have it in quite right"... He pulls harder. I start to get angry that hes not letting go and is hurting my neck. I had a comp that weekend and I didnt want a sore neck. I decide to cross face. I did. HARD. He rolls to his back I sink in my hooks and secure the RNC....I was not nice about the RNC. Sean will attest to the sound that came out of him when I slapped it on. haha...I was pretty pissed. I tapped him 2x in another min and he quits the roll and goes inside. I dont get pissed easily on the mat. I probably shouldnt have, but it is what it is.

Sean then rolls with the guy in the video who was visiting for the 2nd time i think.

The day ended when somebody in the family had a "lergic" reaction to peanuts and had to go to the hospital. Some of the more memorable experiences are when they told us to go take a leak in the neighbors yard over by the broken beer bottles abd some of the justification they were using why they couldnt tap sean or I. The best is when I asked one of them where they got their techniques and they answer "mostly eddie bravo"

They have since never made another post on craigslist or their website.

my neck was sore for a week =(
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Thanks for that! Did your neck effect the competition or was it fine?
 
i dont think it mattered came competition time. I didnt train that night and the next morning though.
 
Man I think this is awesome. I can't help but think their minds were opened a little by the experience. And props to the guy Sean went against in the video. He didn't seem to be spazzing and going crazy at all, it looked like he controlled himself and was open to whatever would come of it. He seemed humble about the whole matter.

I can't understand people complaining about this whole thing.
 
irc said:
Man I think this is awesome. I can't help but think their minds were opened a little by the experience. And props to the guy Sean went against in the video. He didn't seem to be spazzing and going crazy at all, it looked like he controlled himself and was open to whatever would come of it. He seemed humble about the whole matter.

I can't understand people complaining about this whole thing.
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Same here, I thought it looked like a nice, fun roll. The other guy had a calm, good attitude.

And Sean isn't exactly an ordinary purple belt either.
 
Judo Bounce said:
"We came across a backyard fight video that made us laugh soooooo hard but after looking through a few videos they showed a video of one of their guys tapping a so called jiu-jitsu fighter."


We're arguing two different things. You're arguing about those were grappling for fun with egos in check. The above quote made me think otherwise. Though if you realize I'm arguing about arrogant backyard grapplers then I don't see how being humbled with a roll with a purple belt isn't beneficial. My point was regardless of how or why they rolled, they had a better understanding about what they were accomplishing. You asked why bother? For their benefit. They'll be better people afterwards.
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I'd like to continue this, but it is late and I am tired. Suffice it to say, as I said before, that those who know, know - and have little reason to prove themselves. Those who don't know, matter very little, if at all. Stephen Hawking is unlikely to respond to any criticism I might level his way because it would be immediately apparent than I know nothing about theoretical physics, and thus a response would take more effort than my opinion was worth. By responding, however, he would immediately lend a certainly amount of credibility to my criticism simply due to the virtue of his response.

It is no different in this instance. I know these guys can't grapple. You know they can't grapple. Sean obviously knew they can't grapple. Anyone with any formal training in grappling would be aware of this. Any response to ridiculous claims that might be made either lowers the credibility of the response to the level of the claim, or vice versa. And in the end, the only people whose opinion you change are those who obviously care very little about the serious aspect of grappling to begin with.

It's a waste of both time and energy.
 
Darkslide632 said:
I'd like to continue this, but it is late and I am tired. Suffice it to say, as I said before, that those who know, know - and have little reason to prove themselves. Those who don't know, matter very little, if at all. Stephen Hawking is unlikely to respond to any criticism I might level his way because it would be immediately apparent than I know nothing about theoretical physics, and thus a response would take more effort than my opinion was worth. By responding, however, he would immediately lend a certainly amount of credibility to my criticism simply due to the virtue of his response.

It is no different in this instance. I know these guys can't grapple. You know they can't grapple. Sean obviously knew they can't grapple. Anyone with any formal training in grappling would be aware of this. Any response to ridiculous claims that might be made either lowers the credibility of the response to the level of the claim, or vice versa. And in the end, the only people whose opinion you change are those who obviously care very little about the serious aspect of grappling to begin with.

It's a waste of both time and energy.
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You keep missing my point. And I think its because you keep trying to prove that you should have nothing to prove. Which isn't what I'm arguing at all. What you're saying in a nutchell is, "Why should you roll with them? Let them be arrogant. I know what I know and that's what matters. What would I gain from proving them wrong?"

Nothing. But THEY could learn so much more from being humbled.

You're putting too much emphasis on the intention. Its not about the everyday purple belt and whatever point he's trying to the backyard grappler. Its the outcome is much more important. WHY DOES IT MATTER if the actual practitioner feels he should prove something? The OTHER person will gain something from it. So again, regardless of the TS motive or why this roll happened, this person has grown from this experience and that's what's important.


Maybe if I use your analogy it'll help relate the point I'm trying to make. Say I did critisize Hawking. In him not responding, I would gain nothing. But if he were to lecture me, even if it was out of spite, I would know more than what I did before. How I decide to interpret and use my new found knowledge is now entirely up to me but because of the lecture I have this option. In a way, someone could say your outlook is selfish.
 
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I'm a blue belt I would have played some kinda game, I probably wouldn't have done the awesome face plant knee bar. Other than that I'm not sure I would do that much better. Sean is good.
 
Too bad that guy didn't have the money to keep going to classes, he seemed eager to learn.
 
Title Fight Productions said:
yeah he did, but the guy he rolled with in the video looked 100% chill and respectful.
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That doesn't mean he wasn't talking shit before hand(as the TS implied). If I got tapped every 5 seconds...I would probably be pretty chill too.

If I didn't get the back story....I would think the kid was cool and this wouldn't of been nothing more than an advanced guy rolling with beginner. The back story made it an advanced guy putting a cocky guy in his place. (At least that's what was revealed at the time I posted that. Later it seems that the guy in the video wasn't the one talking the shit and it was actually only his 2nd time there...but that wasn't known at the time I made the comment.)
 
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tenniswhiz said:
Nice work.
You gotta give the kid some credit for being able to roll for a while and for rolling against someone above his level, he seemed cool about it.
It was probably like rolling with any beginner white belt from your school, right?

What is especially bothersome was realizing that jigsaw mats suck. I've never used one and this one didn't look like it was holding together too well.
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Agreed. The guy in the video looked pretty relaxed, and seemed to enjoy himself. Reading through the rest of this thread it appears that he wasn't the one talking shit in the first place.

As for the jigsaw mats, I've got a 4 x 5m sparring area in my home gym and they never move around or 'pop up'. I bought high quality zebra mats though, which are $36 a sq metre. :)
 
M@sato said:
Agreed. The guy in the video looked pretty relaxed, and seemed to enjoy himself. Reading through the rest of this thread it appears that he wasn't the one talking shit in the first place.

As for the jigsaw mats, I've got a 4 x 5m sparring area in my home gym and they never move around or 'pop up'. I bought high quality zebra mats though, which are $36 a sq metre. :)
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just for the record it was an uneven surface on a bumpy grass area with various thickness of cardboard and carpet under it. I brought the mats because there was no way in heck i was rolling on carpet and cardboard that they leave outside 24/7.

they never pop up or move on a solid surface. I think the 10 x 10 mat was about 180 bucks. I roll on them before big ibjjf events because they feel slick and you slide around like you do at pans/worlds.
 
I thought part of being a purple belt was being humble. The "amateur" in the video looked a lot more humble than you sound posting this. Good luck with your continued training
 
kind of off topic but sean, your highlight video at 1:22-1:27, that half guard pass is sick!
 
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