Back-stepping rear hand counter

[sourdiesel209]

This move has been widely popular in MMA with really good strikers using it lately like Wonderboy Thompson and of course McGregors knockout of Jose Aldo (who even started using it on his last fight lol), but does anyone have an example of this in kickboxing, muay thai or boxing?

Ive been trying to emulate this correctly in sparring, I guess you could consider it a sort of backwards hop step?

 

[PivotPunch]

I asked that in a similar thread but why do you need to hopstep to punch while taking a step?

 

[sourdiesel209]

I asked that in a similar thread but why do you need to hopstep to punch while taking a step?

Thats what Im trying to find out, I guess your in a better position to counter if you land with your both feet at the same time rather than step one then drag the other. It might be some karate thing with the wide stance, since both McGregor and Wonderboy come from that background.

 

[PivotPunch]

Thats what Im trying to find out, I guess your in a better position to counter if you land with your both feet at the same time rather than step one then drag the other. It might be some karate thing with the wide stance, since both McGregor and Wonderboy come from that background.

Theoretically a hopstep is obviously more sudden if you can do it quick as it's one move instead of 2 but it's probably similar in speed and puts you at more risk.

You could also just punch while you step back with the rear foot its the quickest option allthough since you only do half a step it covers a mlittle bit less distance.

But I think hopstep backwards counters are rare at high level boxing for a reason and that mostly guys like pacquiao or Roy Jones are people you would think pull that off ragularly against other elite boxers.
I think what makes it work for both is that they are obviously that much better boxers/strikers than their opponents and Wonderboy comes from a sports karate background were that move is probably the to go move while a boxer would just step back and counter.

I don't know how many high level boxers would run and lunge themselves forward when it was just the wrong moment the way Aldo did hell i don't know if Aldo would do this more than once every 50 fights or so

 

[Kaioken x 10]

The step back counter is highly effective in boxing and kickboxing, and of course mma. You just have to know how to use it. It's best against a rear arm straight punch from an opposite stance opponent.

So, say your southpaw, when you see an orthodox opponent throw a straight right, step back, landing on the ball of your rear foot, and immediately push off of that foot to shift your weight for the straight left counter over the top of their retracting arm. That example is actually the exact counter McGregor used against Aldo.

It's not as effective after a jab or a hook from the opposite side, because a combination 1-2 or 3-2 will often land on you before your counter will land. And it's not as effective against a same stance opponent's straight punch because the angle that you will be stepping back is straight back from their punch. However, it can be used against a front arm hook of a same stance opponent, because the angle is right. Korean Zombie's KO of Mark Hominick was a good example of this counter.

So to conclude, it's best to use against a punch coming from the same side as the arm you'll be countering with (eg. counter their right arm punch with your left, and vice versa), and don't use it against a jab.

If you want some examples of fighters who use this counter, I'd suggest watching Lyoto, McGregor, KZ, Saenchai (muay thai), and Pernell Whitaker (boxer)

 

[ARIZE]

Some variation also:

-Move back while your opponent attack, but stopping and planting your feet to deliver the counter rear (or event move forward after moving backward). That adds some power...

-Pivot while you counter with the rear hook. You get better angles...

-Fainting a backward movement by only moving your torso back, counter while re positioning your upper body. (most of the times you bait it with having your head in front of your center line. Mayweather does it, a lot of karate guys do it but may need adjustments to your stance).

Mixing those with a more classic back-stepping counter, will make it difficult for the opponent to adjust to it...

 

[roventu]

all part of perfect counter punching.

check hook

rear hook pivot (like arize mentioned, same punch that OSP ko'd shogun with)

and hopback cross are all good things to do as your opponent comes in.

aldo was doing a clinic with counter punching though last saturday, i gotta rewatch that. esp versus a flowchart? (i dont think this is the right term, basically someone that throws out a preset combo) fighter like frankie, its like he knew what was coming.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

Apologies for the bad quality of the video.



Apologies for his awful trousers.

 

[Pugilistic]

I recommend the whole video but the back step to right hand counter starts arond 12:25.
In case you don't know, Ward is one of the most technically skilled boxers right now so listening to him explain things is gold.

 

[PivotPunch]

The step back counter is highly effective in boxing and kickboxing, and of course mma. You just have to know how to use it. It's best against a rear arm straight punch from an opposite stance opponent.

So, say your southpaw, when you see an orthodox opponent throw a straight right, step back, landing on the ball of your rear foot, and immediately push off of that foot to shift your weight for the straight left counter over the top of their retracting arm. That example is actually the exact counter McGregor used against Aldo.

It's not as effective after a jab or a hook from the opposite side, because a combination 1-2 or 3-2 will often land on you before your counter will land. And it's not as effective against a same stance opponent's straight punch because the angle that you will be stepping back is straight back from their punch. However, it can be used against a front arm hook of a same stance opponent, because the angle is right. Korean Zombie's KO of Mark Hominick was a good example of this counter.

So to conclude, it's best to use against a punch coming from the same side as the arm you'll be countering with (eg. counter their right arm punch with your left, and vice versa), and don't use it against a jab.

If you want some examples of fighters who use this counter, I'd suggest watching Lyoto, McGregor, KZ, Saenchai (muay thai), and Pernell Whitaker (boxer)

But it's different if someone like you said punches on the step or hop steps.
With a backwards hopstep you are all the way backwards in one movement and can't stop it only works if the opponent is overcomitting
If Aldo for example isn't launch forward but had been more measured then McGregor would have jumpe out of distance and Aldo would have avoided the punch by simply standing still r a second but McGregor would have been out is position to defend and unable to stop his own punch giving Aldo a good opportunity to counter McGregor himself.

If you don't do it with a hopstep but strike while stepping then McGregor would have been at a smaller risk had Aldo stayed calm and ready to counter himself and he could have stopped the punch if he wanted to

 

[abgmma]

Yeah i use it alot and it is my best tool against aggressive opponents but in order for it to work easily you have to adapt a wide stance (kind of karate stance) ex: Mcgregor
I don't think it can be used in Mt and kickboxing effectively because in a narrow stance you can't see nearly all punches coming and you probably get hit before even hop steping
On the other hand, Karate stance offer you lot of distance which makes it easier to see punches coming and react

 

[DoctorTaco]

You've got to really truly understand range. Your range, your opponents, and how footwork affects them.

I personally use a ride back (both feet stay in position but I lean away from the punch while maintaining proper posture and keeping my chin down) or a step back where I do the same thing but step back with my back foot only. There's a subtle 3rd option taught as a drop back where you fade the distance back by dropping your back heel to the floor, but that's a game of inches and I'm not there yet

 

[sourdiesel209]

The step back counter is highly effective in boxing and kickboxing, and of course mma. You just have to know how to use it. It's best against a rear arm straight punch from an opposite stance opponent.

So, say your southpaw, when you see an orthodox opponent throw a straight right, step back, landing on the ball of your rear foot, and immediately push off of that foot to shift your weight for the straight left counter over the top of their retracting arm. That example is actually the exact counter McGregor used against Aldo.

It's not as effective after a jab or a hook from the opposite side, because a combination 1-2 or 3-2 will often land on you before your counter will land. And it's not as effective against a same stance opponent's straight punch because the angle that you will be stepping back is straight back from their punch. However, it can be used against a front arm hook of a same stance opponent, because the angle is right. Korean Zombie's KO of Mark Hominick was a good example of this counter.

So to conclude, it's best to use against a punch coming from the same side as the arm you'll be countering with (eg. counter their right arm punch with your left, and vice versa), and don't use it against a jab.

If you want some examples of fighters who use this counter, I'd suggest watching Lyoto, McGregor, KZ, Saenchai (muay thai), and Pernell Whitaker (boxer)

all part of perfect counter punching.

check hook

rear hook pivot (like arize mentioned, same punch that OSP ko'd shogun with)

and hopback cross are all good things to do as your opponent comes in.

aldo was doing a clinic with counter punching though last saturday, i gotta rewatch that. esp versus a flowchart? (i dont think this is the right term, basically someone that throws out a preset combo) fighter like frankie, its like he knew what was coming.

Yeah it seems to work best for countering the rear hand of opposite stance fighters, altho it still kinda works otherwise. In McGregors knockout of Aldo, it was the left hook that was countered and you can see they actually trade hooks but Aldo was in a much more unbalanced position. Speaking of Aldo's last fight, he was countering Frankies blitz very well, pretty much mimicing Mcgregors counter vs a same stance opponent, but he got caught trading hooks a couple times. So its doable but alot more risky, maybe if you try harder to put your head offline? Instead of leaving it straight up, and always pivoting after.

You've got to really truly understand range. Your range, your opponents, and how footwork affects them.

I personally use a ride back (both feet stay in position but I lean away from the punch while maintaining proper posture and keeping my chin down) or a step back where I do the same thing but step back with my back foot only. There's a subtle 3rd option taught as a drop back where you fade the distance back by dropping your back heel to the floor, but that's a game of inches and I'm not there yet

The first one sounds like a mayweather pull counter? The second one where you only step with the back foot and then come back I use it alot in MT for fading high kicks, I guess you can come back with a straight right/kick if you get your distance right. With these types of counters its really a game of inches like you said, one inch off and your gonna get nailed hard.

Yeah i use it alot and it is my best tool against aggressive opponents but in order for it to work easily you have to adapt a wide stance (kind of karate stance) ex: Mcgregor
I don't think it can be used in Mt and kickboxing effectively because in a narrow stance you can't see nearly all punches coming and you probably get hit before even hop steping
On the other hand, Karate stance offer you lot of distance which makes it easier to see punches coming and react

Thats why I was asking for any fights in MT/boxing where it was used, I havent seen any lol This wide stance will probably end you up like that Roufus fight where he gets destroyed by leg kicks vs a thai. I guess punching while stepping back would be better with a narrower stance?