B.J. Penn's Submission Grappling

[ShanghaiBJJ]

I'm fully aware of his grappling credentials up until 2000 Mundial but the level of competition has improved dramatically in that past 8 years.

You only say that because you don't know any of the great players before 2000.
To say the champs from back then would be "dramatically" worse in their prime compared to todays champs is pretty ignorant in my opinion.

I think BJ would do just well if he trained for it hard.

I also think you just made this thread in the hope to get some ammo to go back to the HW forum and get into more stupid keyboard-warrior-arguments.

Go on ahead then....

 

[Ring>>Cage]

You only say that because you don't know any of the great players before 2000.
To say the champs from back then would be "dramatically" worse in their prime compared to todays champs is pretty ignorant in my opinion.

I think BJ would do just well if he trained for it hard.

I also think you just made this thread in the hope to get some ammo to go back to the HW forum and get into more stupid keyboard-warrior-arguments.

Go on ahead then....

You'd be incorrect. I didn't create this thread to troll or flame. What I said that to Slithers was in response to his uncalled for personal attack. I've noticed that whenever a fighter such as Aoki is praised (this section included) for his grappling ability, someone says Penn is better. JerseyTrash provided the best point that his grappling may remain top level and I appreciate the contribution.

 

[Tony Manifold]

BJJ has very good technical Jujitsu. Look at the 2nd round against hughes in their last fight. Look at his domination of stevenson, who has very tight BJJ himself. He is also a very naturally talented grappler. I saw a vid the other day with Eddie bravo talking about "Twister Side control" and how he likes to take mount from there. He grabs his foot and slides it under the guys knee and across. he mentions in the video that BJ will do the same thing just with out grabbing his foot. It is that natural dexterity that makes his BJJ so dangerous. His talent compensates for his (maybe) lower than elite skill set.

Two other points GSP passed Penn's guard briefly in their fight. He made it to half guard and then BJ regained guard. So he did something, just not alot Aoki is praised for his grappling ability because he is basically a one trick pony yet he beats some of the top LWs in the world. He caught Hansen (good grappler himself) in a gogoplata and he used rubber guard and DLR guard to good effect against JZ almost finishing by omaplata.

Would Penn or aoki beat Marcelo? Probably not but in nogi, I would probably be confident enough to risk some money on them if the odds were right. Bottomline, I think both would be competitive at ADCC but probably wouldn't win it all. Not that that is anything to be ashamed of.

 

[BigKO34]

As of late, I've seen people questioning BJ's BJJ in the heavyweight forum and on here. Most of the time they mention Aoki as one of the people that is now better on the ground than BJ.

I can almost see where these people are coming from. Aoki subs a lot of really good fighters. All he does in MMA is use his BJJ, and he is really good at.

BJ doesn't sub the amount of people that Aoki does, and thus in some people's eyes he must not be as good at BJJ.

However, i think the difference between BJ and Aoki is that BJ doesn't rely on subs in his MMA matches. While on the ground, BJ seems to focus on position, control, and sweeps from the bottom. He doesn't generally attempt a high volume of subs in any one fight, because he only goes for very high percentage subs. Also, BJ would just as much like gain a good position and ground and pound somebody as he would sub them. This doesn't mean he isn't still a phenom on the ground, it just means he uses his skills differently than other fighters( who may be more one dimensional than he is in MMA)

 

[hayliks]

Like I said in another thread, Aoki's guard is probably the best guard in MMA. BJ Penn has some of the best BJJ for MMA, but I highly doubt that he would fair top 5 in any major competition without properly training for it. If he was just thrown in the mundials this year without at least a solid month of nothing but gi training, I would say he goes 1-1 at best.

 

[Tony Manifold]

Like I said in another thread, Aoki's guard is probably the best guard in MMA. BJ Penn has some of the best BJJ for MMA, but I highly doubt that he would fair top 5 in any major competition without properly training for it. If he was just thrown in the mundials this year without at least a solid month of nothing but gi training, I would say he goes 1-1 at best.

that is a pretty fair assesment, if you ask me. It is comparing apples to oranges really. Look at Randy Couture. IMO best wrestling for MMA ever but he was only an Olympic alternate while guys like Lindland and Karam Gaber Ibrahim won medals. Or Karo's Judo for MMA vs nastual or yoshida. All these guys were international level athletes but some guys have adapted their original sport for MMA better. Whose to say that karo could not make the national judo team if he focused soley on that? The same could be said for BJ and BJJ.

 

[Terere**]

There is no way to say how he would do.. but based on watching him roll with Leo, and hearing stories in Nova Uniao, he would do pretty mediocre at ADCC,. Still one of the best MMA grapplers though...

 

[Shemhazai]

Like I said in another thread, Aoki's guard is probably the best guard in MMA. BJ Penn has some of the best BJJ for MMA, but I highly doubt that he would fair top 5 in any major competition without properly training for it. If he was just thrown in the mundials this year without at least a solid month of nothing but gi training, I would say he goes 1-1 at best.

Doesn't BJ still grapple extensively with the gi, though?