B.J. Penn is NOT the LW GOAT. Not even close.

[Scyther]

Hey, when Aldo (who has the same frame as Penn) goes up and beats Lawler and then loses a split to Hendricks, let me know ... Until then, Penn is a legend. Plain and simple. He deserves hate for a lot of his career foolishness, but he also deserves immense props for some of that absurdity allowing him to do some crazy stuff. Props to Penn, period.

No one saying he's a bad fighter. All I'm trying to do is make the case that he's not the LW GOAT. Never did I say credit should be taken away from him for fighting bigger guys or being willing to fight anyone.

 

[Hans Gercmiov]

How am I blindly saying he's not? Did you read any of my posts in this thread where I provided evidence and logic.

"Evidence" has no place in a topic so subjective

 

[Thuckey]

Nah, two of Bendo's title wins were controversial split decisions most people think he lost. Not good enough for GOAT status.

BJ completely dominated during his title reign.

Yeah I agree, he really seemed like he had a horse-shoe up his ass for a while or something. Or the judges just really wanted a dominant LW champ. But if you look at the records strictly on paper, they tell a tale of potential GOATness...

Glad he wa exposed though, not GOAT material honestly.

 

[Scyther]

"Evidence" has no place in a topic so subjective

I hope you're joking.

 

[tenniswhiz]

Being champ and defending multiple times is a big deal.
Beating Gomi, Pulver, Sherk, Florian, Joe Daddy, Uno, and Diego, was all a very big deal at the time.

If you think Clay Guida compares to that, then I don't know what to tell you.

One of the guys BJ beat down and finished, fought and finished Clay Guida on the way to getting his shot against BJ.
Which has nothing to do with long term achievements, but should be mentioned since OP mentioned Guida.

 

[MikeHammer**]

There are 5 guys who have resumes that can compete for LW GOAT: Penn, Gomi, Bendo, Aoki, Melendez. Bendo is the only guy you could argue has a better LW resume than BJ Penn. All of those others guys including Pettis either fall short or simply havent done enough.

it is impossible to say Edgar's resume is not, at a minimum, in contention with BJ's if not ahead as well.

 

[peytonlucy]

There isn't a definable GOAT yet. When GSP beat Hughes in their third fight, it was early in GSP's career but it was clear that if he defended the belt a handful of times that he was clearly GOAT of WW's. It's too early of lw's. Penn should have been LW GOAT but the losses to Frankie really hurt. The time used to Fitch, MacDonald and Diaz were all missed opportunities to pad his lw record.

 

[MikeHammer**]

It's easy to put it that way if you ignore the context of time. Din Thomas and Caol Uno were both just as good of wins as Maynard was. Din Thomas was even able to beat Jeremy Stephens and Clay Guida late in his career.

That's the ignorance of threads like these. They ignore the fact that people fall out of their primes and the phrase "You're only as good as your last fight", although false, is reinforced.

One day a new young fan will say Maynard was just another tough guy and nothing more.

I would agree with you that Din and Caol were solid wins. So was Matt Serra.

I still put Edgar's overall LW resume above BJ's when you rank it from top wins to bottom.

 

[Hans Gercmiov]

I hope you're joking.

No, I'm not. The entirety of your argument is based on your personal opinion. It's like me saying my favorite color is blue, and yours is red, and here's my evidence as to why blue is a better color.

 

[MikeHammer**]

Well, I'm going to be absurd and say that Anderson going up and destroying a former, and very recent at the time, LHW champion at LHW does contribute to his status as MW GOAT.

yes, then you are being absurd if you think a guys accomplishments in another division impact his position in a completely different position.

Rumble is doing great at LHW. If he somehow manages an awesome LHW career should that bump into top rankings at WW? Do you see how ridiculous that is?

 

[mastodon06]

There is no clear LW goat. BJ Penn was on track to establishing himself as the goat, but losses to Edgar stopped his momentum, and proved he was not the clear cut best at LW. I don't care what any of his fans say, at no point in BJ's career could he have beaten Edgar. Pettis seems to be on track, but considering the competitive nature of the division he may also fall short. Benson, and Gomi were also on track at one point, but suffered losses in the prime of their careers.

 

[Substance Abuse]

Caol Uno was never a good fighter? What the fuck? Jesus ... Sherdog doesn't know what context is.

Hey, when Weidman eventually loses, you can discredit all the guys he beat if they're not in the UFC anymore and say he wasn't that good either because at the time of his loss or career downturn, the current quality of the fighters he beat are the exact same fighters despite career stature, fight mileage, age and countless other factors. The same with Aldo, Pettis, Cain and countless others ...

Hilarious, lol.

 

[Substance Abuse]

There is no clear LW goat. BJ Penn was on track to establishing himself as the goat, but losses to Edgar stopped his momentum, and proved he was not the clear cut best at LW. I don't care what any of his fans say, at no point in BJ's career could he have beaten Edgar. Pettis seems to be on track, but considering the competitive nature of the division he may also fall short. Benson, and Gomi were also on track at one point, but suffered losses in the prime of their careers.

At no point? You mean, when he out-struck Edgar and defended 13/14 takedown attempts in their first fight and was the aggressor, but somehow got robbed? Yeah, at no point then either.

 

[JKS]

I couldn't agree more.....personally I would have Bendo, Gomi or Edgar higher then BJ. People think that BJ was this great champ at LW....what they don't realize is that in his first UFC run....he never won the title.

Bj is his first UFC run as 5-1-1.....and didn't win the belt while Pulver was 6-0-1 in the UFC during that time and beat BJ in a title defence...and actually defended the belt twice.

BJ won the title in his second run.....he beat guys like PUlver, Stevenson, Sherk and Florian....but I was more impressed with what Edgar and Bendo did during that time.

BJ is great amongst the goat list when you combine his career at LW and WW but not Goat at LW

 

[MikeHammer**]

Where you are failing is the lack of mention for his win over Matt Hughes during a time period when Hughes was king of the welterweights.

EDIT* It doesn't matter that it isn't a LW fight. It exceeds beating a LW.

your post is one of the dumbest things ever said.

it is like saying Rumble's wins over Arlovski, and several LHW's should get him ranked him as a top WW because those wins are bigger than WW wins.

Ridiculous. Dumb and ridiculous.

 

[Substance Abuse]

I couldn't agree more.....personally I would have Bendo, Gomi or Edgar higher then BJ. People think that BJ was this great champ at LW....what they don't realize is that in his first UFC run....he never won the title.

Bj is his first UFC run as 5-1-1.....and didn't win the belt while Pulver was 6-0-1 in the UFC during that time and beat BJ in a title defence...and actually defended the belt twice.

BJ won the title in his second run.....he beat guys like PUlver, Stevenson, Sherk and Florian....but I was more impressed with what Edgar and Bendo did during that time.

BJ is great amongst the goat list when you combine his career at LW and WW but not Goat at LW

That Uno draw was a joke.

Nevertheless, anyone who says Penn isn't the GOAT because of who he beat doesn't realize how good some of those guys were when he fought them. Context in this sport matters just like eras matter in other sports. It's ridiculous to compare them when you don't have the insight of that situation at the time.

 

[Substance Abuse]

your post is one of the dumbest things ever said.

it is like saying Rumble's wins over Arlovski, and several LHW's should get him ranked him as a top WW because those wins are bigger than WW wins.

Ridiculous. Dumb and ridiculous.

I don't necessarily agree with him. But I think the better comparison would be saying 'Rumble' beating Cain.

 

[Captain_Dammitt]

BJ Penn is the current lw goat. He did a lot for the sport, dominated during his prime and fought way out of his weight class just to prove that he could.

 

[Rational Poster]

That Uno draw was a joke.

Nevertheless, anyone who says Penn isn't the GOAT because of who he beat doesn't realize how good some of those guys were when he fought them. Context in this sport matters just like eras matter in other sports. It's ridiculous to compare them when you don't have the insight of that situation at the time.

It's pretty easy to discredit a fighter when all you've ever seen of them is their w/l ratio.


I am fully convinced the BJ Penn that destroyed Diego Sanchez was the best fighter of all time. It's a shame he only showed up one time.

 

[Substance Abuse]

Here's how we'll do this:

Bendo beat Frankie twice, Bendo lost to RDA, RDA lost to Guida, Guida lost to Sanchez and Florian, Sanchez got the living shit beat of him by Penn and Penn finished Florian.

Penn was robbed in the first Frankie fight.

I GUESS I WIN!

Context doesn't matter ...

PENN GOAT!