B.J. Penn is NOT the LW GOAT. Not even close.

He never dominated the LW division the way Fedor, Jones, Anderson, GSP, or Aldo dominated their respective divisions, so it will be easier for someone to surpass him than many other divisions. But IMO he still is the GOAT of a very volatile division. At his peak, his performances were spectacular, including those against the two best welterweights of the time: Hughes and GSP, who were much larger. On paper, his accomplishments may not seem that impressive now, but nobody at lightweight has made the sort of impact that BJ did during his best years. It was great to watch.
 
MikeHammer said:
Well Edgar for one has done better at LW.

Edgars top LW wins

- Bj
- BJ
- Maynard
- Sherk


BJ's top LW wins

- Gomi
- Sherk
- ??

Edgar and BJ each have 3 defenses
Edgar has the better overall record at LW with the tougher strength of schedule.
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It's easy to put it that way if you ignore the context of time. Din Thomas and Caol Uno were both just as good of wins as Maynard was. Din Thomas was even able to beat Jeremy Stephens and Clay Guida late in his career.

That's the ignorance of threads like these. They ignore the fact that people fall out of their primes and the phrase "You're only as good as your last fight", although false, is reinforced.

One day a new young fan will say Maynard was just another tough guy and nothing more.
 
I personally think that edgar is the GOAT at lightweight but its all a matter of opinion so no real point in arguing something that cant be proven.
 
FoghornLeghorn said:
BJ is the greatest by default, because who's done better?

Bendo barely edging out decisions in constant rematches because they were so close? Yeah right.
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Who's done better? Well first off Frankie beat BJ twice and has other good wins besides B.J. so he should automatically be above Penn on everyone's list. If beating the supposed GOAT twice doesn't make you GOAT what does.

So let's get this straight, barely winning, or rematches devalues a win? Have you even stopped to consider it's a sign that a fighter is facing a tough opponent that's very skilled and his equal. That's exactly, what Bendo faced when he fought Frankie twice, and Gilbert Melendez.

However, anytime we saw BJ face stiff competition or on the losing side of things he tended to crumble and just give up.
 
Scyther said:
That's one of the worst arguments I've heard in a long ass time. Even for Sherdog. First off, no, no B.J. did not beat GSP in their first fight.

Next, who you think won a fight is irrelevant, who actually won the fight is relevant.

Next, Penn only had 4 WW wins in his career. Matt Hughes twice, Renzo Gracie, and Rodrigo Gracie. Benson Henderson would maul all 4 in their primes. Pettis would as well (though might have trouble a bit with Hughes wrestling, but we've seen his sick BJJ so even if he did it wouldn't surprise me if he subbed him.

But all that's irrelevant, because a win at WW doesn't = more evidence that someone is the GOAT of another division. By your logic, Anderson can claim the wins he had at LHW helps prove he's the MW GOAT, that's just absurd.
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even if Benson would do that (not saying he couldn't) he hasn't. I dont use this 'logic' to justify bj's goatness at 155 i just think it adds to it.. what other fighters have that ability? and yea i think andy is by far the goat at MW but thats not only because of his wins at LHW. The wins at LHW just add to his already incredible career.
 
GoshiShun17 said:
There is simply no way you could argue Benson being the GOAT. The only thing you could argue is whether or not his championship run was impressive or not.

That can be debated.
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I don't consider Bendo GOAT because of all the (close) decisions he had. Plus he's not even the #1 LW of his era. But he has racked up 8 top 10 wins at LW and defended the UFC belt 3 times. That matches BJ right there. Then throw in the WEC belt and the quality of opposition and one could definitely make a case for Bendo's resume > BJ.
 
I don't think BJ Penn is the LW GOAT either. But I don't agree with the "not even close" though. He could probably make a decent claim on that title, but I think it should be denied for there are other contemporaries who have better resumes,,, or guys who will have better resumes soon enough.
 
Scyther said:
But all that's irrelevant, because a win at WW doesn't = more evidence that someone is the GOAT of another division. By your logic, Anderson can claim the wins he had at LHW helps prove he's the MW GOAT, that's just absurd.
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Well, I'm going to be absurd and say that Anderson going up and destroying a former, and very recent at the time, LHW champion at LHW does contribute to his status as MW GOAT.
 
ThefGabbana said:
the reason bj is considered the lw goat is because he was competitive at 170 as well. he was so talented he could beat up the guys much bigger than him. a lot of people thought bj beat gsp the first time they fought (including myself). what other LW now could do that? not saying pettis cant, but he hasnt yet. BJ has. which justifies his standing as LW goat. BJ just loved the challenge of a 'superfight' when maybe he shouldve focused on 155. regardless he still dominated.
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I don't know which lightweight now could do it, but Matt Serra did do it.
 
Scyther said:
Who's done better? Well first off Frankie beat BJ twice and has other good wins besides B.J. so he should automatically be above Penn on everyone's list. If beating the supposed GOAT twice doesn't make you GOAT what does.

So let's get this straight, barely winning, or rematches devalues a win? Have you even stopped to consider it's a sign that a fighter is facing a tough opponent that's very skilled and his equal. That's exactly, what Bendo faced when he fought Frankie twice, and Gilbert Melendez.

However, anytime we saw BJ face stiff competition or on the losing side of things he tended to crumble and just give up.
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BJ and Frankie should each have one win over each other, that decision was an aberration and highlights the problem with someone like TS basing a fighter's standing on a W/L record without viewing the fights or knowing the context in which they occurred.

For the record, Edgar should be #2, since he should have a win over Bendo.
 
RiotWyatt said:
It's easy to put it that way if you ignore the context of time. Din Thomas and Caol Uno were both just as good of wins as Maynard was. Din Thomas was even able to beat Jeremy Stephens and Clay Guida late in his career.

That's the ignorance of threads like these. They ignore the fact that people fall out of their primes and the phrase "You're only as good as your last fight", although false, is reinforced.

One day a new young fan will say Maynard was just another tough guy and nothing more.
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Uh. This thread isn't ignorant, I know fully well what BJ did in his past and I know fully well that Caol Uno isn't that great of a fighter, if he were dropped into today's fight game he'd be irrelevant. He was only able to succeed because the fight game wasn't as developed.

Din Thomas is an ok fighter but nothing great so that's why no one considers Din Thomas as a great win. He's a solid fighter yes but nothing special.
 
Matt Serra is LW GOAT because he beat GSP at WW....

Did I do it right? lol
 
Scyther said:
Uh. This thread isn't ignorant, I know fully well what BJ did in his past and I know fully well that Caol Uno isn't that great of a fighter, if he were dropped into today's fight game he'd be irrelevant. He was only able to succeed because the fight game wasn't as developed.

Din Thomas is an ok fighter but nothing great so that's why no one considers Din Thomas as a great win. He's a solid fighter yes but nothing special.
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And this is exactly what they'll say about Maynard in a couple of years. Heck people say it now.
 
The Prodigyy said:
BJ Penn is a man who will fight anyone. Similar to Dan Henderson. Fuck all the GOAT discussions. Show them their much deserved respect.
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A willingness to fight anyone doesn't however make you LW GOAT. I'm not saying the guy is terrible, all I'm saying is he's not the GOAT.
 
Rational Poster said:
BJ is the LW GOAT not because of his record, but because of his talent.

His record just helps, though of course he could have done better.
Getting an L in the first Frankie fight, when he shouldn't have, really changed the momentum of his career.
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Well said. Penn was robbed in the first Edgar fight, he has never looked the same since.
 
chinarice said:
Matt Serra is LW GOAT because he beat GSP at WW....

Did I do it right? lol
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Dan Henderson is the greatest middleweight of all time because he beat Shogun at light heavyweight, and he's the best light heavyweight of all time because he beat Fedor at heavyweight.
 
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