B.J. Penn is NOT the LW GOAT. Not even close.

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by Scyther, Jan 12, 2015.

  1. Scyther

    Scyther Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    While I do believe B.J. Penn COULD HAVE BEEN the LW GOAT, he blew any chance of being considered the long time GOAT (well at least by me) by fighting so often at WW and not stacking wins at LW.

    Everyone talks about how he cleaned out the division, and that's just not true. After going on a 5 fight win streak the supposed strongest division in the UFC is "cleaned out?"

    The fact of the matter is Benson Henderson and Donald Cerrone had their 5 RD war the same year B.J. apparently finished cleaning out the division after he beat Diego Sanchez. However, at the time WEC LW's weren't seen as on the level of UFC fighters. Therefore, there weren't really any calls to see the likes of Benson or Donald vs. B.J.

    Also, why did B.J. lose to the likes of "little Frankie Edgar," if the division was supposedly "cleaned out" after the Diego Sanchez win.

    As of right now guys like Cerrone, Henderson, Melendez, Pettis, and Edgar have just as many or more meaningful fights at LW and way more fights in general at LW.

    Hell Clay Guida, has more fights at LW and I'd argue just as many good wins.

    B.J. Peen notable LW wins: Diego Sanchez, Gomi, Sean Sherk, Kenny Florian, Joe Stevenson.

    Clay Guida notable wins at LW: Gomi, Pettis, Dos Anjos, Diaz, Josh Thomson. And to add to that Guida has considerably more fights at LW, and 29 of his 31 wins come at LW.

    Now does all this mean I think Guida is the better overall fighter and would beat Penn in his prime if they fought, no.

    The intention of this comparison is simply to show that Penn does not have the wins to be called the LW GOAT if he's not able to separate himself from someone like Clay Guida.

    What B.J. supporters will probably bring up next is the three consecutive title defenses. And while that is the most in LW history it still doesn't change the fact that he doesn't have the wins to compete (record to record) in a division he supposedly dominated.
     
  2. Handawg

    Handawg Brown Belt

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    Uh-oh. This is gonna get ugly.
     
  3. Kalmah

    Kalmah Gold Belt

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    Who is then?
     
  4. Mister7

    Mister7 Red Belt

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    Pshhh
     
  5. chinarice

    chinarice Gold Belt

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    BJ Penn's career is tough to analyze on an all-time scale because of his constant jumping of weightclasses.

    That said, prime BJ destroys Clay Guida and I don't think the fight is even remotely competitive.
     
  6. SaintSoldier

    SaintSoldier Brown Belt

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    Pettis is the LW GOAT
     
  7. Bmartin89

    Bmartin89 Purple Belt

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    No.
     
  8. Rational Poster

    Rational Poster War Room Messiah Platinum Member

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    BJ is the LW GOAT not because of his record, but because of his talent.

    His record just helps, though of course he could have done better.

    Getting an L in the first Frankie fight, when he shouldn't have, really changed the momentum of his career.
     
  9. trblesome1

    trblesome1 Silver Belt

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    This dude makes a long ass post about why BJ is not the greatest then never goes on to name who is better except for some reason mentioning Clay Guida?

    You cannot just name people and say this is a resume, at the time BJ fought those guys they were the best the division had to offer and in their primes

    Fail
     
  10. RepairManManMan

    RepairManManMan Banned Banned

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    BJ only lost when he wasn't motivated.
     
  11. Scyther

    Scyther Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    I already said I thought B.J. would win in their primes. However, that doesn't change the fact that B.J. doesn't have a record at LW that runs away from the rest of the field.
     
  12. trane

    trane Red Belt

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    Didn't read but Penn is definitely the LW GOAT no doubt.
     
  13. ThefGabbana

    ThefGabbana Orange Belt

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    the reason bj is considered the lw goat is because he was competitive at 170 as well. he was so talented he could beat up the guys much bigger than him. a lot of people thought bj beat gsp the first time they fought (including myself). what other LW now could do that? not saying pettis cant, but he hasnt yet. BJ has. which justifies his standing as LW goat. BJ just loved the challenge of a 'superfight' when maybe he shouldve focused on 155. regardless he still dominated.
     
  14. Thuckey

    Thuckey I swear to drunk.. I'm not God. Platinum Member

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    Bendo had a good run, but ultimately fell short. Would be the LW GOAT if not for one man. Anthony Pettis.

    Also Cowboy looks to be going on a tear, if he can keep winning and avenge his losses to the top guys he could get GOAT status.

    But right now, it's BJ
     
  15. Dragon Punch

    Dragon Punch Black Belt

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    BJ is the most overrated fighter of all time.
     
  16. The Prodigyy

    The Prodigyy Orange Belt

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    BJ Penn is a man who will fight anyone. Similar to Dan Henderson. Fuck all the GOAT discussions. Show them their much deserved respect.
     
  17. Scyther

    Scyther Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    That's just silliness to say that he's the GOAT because of his "talent." How talented someone is can be very subjective. By your logic, screw objective facts, let's argue about "talent" to decide who was the GOAT. And if we argue that the argument would go on into eternity because if you're even the conversation as GOAT of any division obviously you're very talented.

    Also, please stop trying to rewrite history, I was a B.J. fan before that Frankie fight and Frankie won every RD.
     
  18. jonathan274

    jonathan274 Firefly Belt

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    I don't have to read this to agree with you but he was certainly one of the best fighters of all time, overall, in any weight class. I think most would agree that both his ambitions (changing weight classes) as well as diet/cardio played some roles in damaging Penn's overall legacy.
     
  19. Scyther

    Scyther Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    Did you even read my post? Also, the main intention of this was to state that Penn is not the GOAT and why, not to say who I thought was the GOAT.
     
  20. Kalmah

    Kalmah Gold Belt

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    If Penn isn't the LW GOAT, someone else has to be. Who is that person?
     

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