Avoiding Kimura from Bottom of the Half Guard.

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Amar, Mar 17, 2008.

  1. Amar

    Amar Feelin' Froggy? Leap

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    Whats up guys. I try to work my half and open/butterfly guards a lot because I am a guy with short legs. In tonights class we started from half guard to do a little light rolling and I was paired up with someone pretty much my same height and weight and a little more experience.

    The problem was every time I was working my under hook from the bottom of the half guard he was very aggressive in reaching for that arm while I was trying to work my sweeps. I think a lot of my problem was that I was rolling lightly and he was going near 100% but I have also encountered this problem with a lot of big guys. I get stuck under them while going for a sweep and while I am trapped they just reach for my under hook and Kimura.

    Anyone have any advice for preventing them from doing so? Should I focus more on keeping my under hook really high and tight to their backs. Should I try and time my sweeps better so that I do not simply phail the sweep attempt, thus leaving my under hooking arm vulnerable?
     
  2. anaconda

    anaconda Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

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    Stay on your side; dont let them flatten you out.

    Get low on their hips. If they start to get the kimura thats when you have to keep your back on the floor so they have no space to crank it. Try to get a lockdown or similar position and stretch them out and block their hips from turning with your elbow. If they cant turn their hips they cant tap you.
     
  3. Amar

    Amar Feelin' Froggy? Leap

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    Yeah I got the lock down on the guy one of the times he secured the kimura grip, but he was pretty determined to get the tap and kept fighting for it with just his arms until I felt some pressure on my shoulder. I figured letting him get it would be better than wasting precious rolling time stalled in the lockdown and possibly tweaking my shoulder.
     
  4. Zankou

    Zankou Muscle and Hate Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    To this day, I still have little answer for that move. It is a gigantic flaw in my half guard game. When the guy turns his back to me and one arm is trapped behind, I really struggle.

    The guy will not usually get the kimura for the tap, but he gets it enough to fuck with your half guard, and set up some passes.

    I don't know what to tell ya, my friend. I think the best thing is to just take the arm and bring it under his far arm, so both arms are on one side. But if the arm gets trapped behind? Ugh.
     
  5. Shaldag

    Shaldag Orange Belt

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    lol at the kimuras are low percentage posts, following in my instructors footsteps iv shut down many a man's halfguards with that kimura from the top, to counter it you need to lock the scorpion guard (lockdown if you must call it that) stetch his leg (each time he tries to crank stetch his leg, he wont be able to finish you), post your free hand in his hip, in one motion push his hip, stretch his leg and straighten the kimura arm to break the grip, you should be in a good position to catch an arm triangle.
     
  6. Snar

    Snar Yellow Belt

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    My answer is to go for the X-Guard. His weight is already to one side, and his arm is already over your head, so you dont need the arm he is kimuraing to make these adjustments. And he usually brings his knee up high enough that it is easy to hook. Its just a little ballsy to make the adjustment to half butterfly, get a little more under him, then go to X while he is trying to crank a kimura even though he is giving you all the openings. In any case it works really well for me.
     
  7. cmburns

    cmburns Guest

    Have you asked your trainer what he would do in this situation?
     
  8. anaconda

    anaconda Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

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    Who said its low percentage? I believe the consensus in this thread is that its high percentage. Thats the problem.
     
  9. anaconda

    anaconda Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

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    Was a big hole in my half guard game until I started utilizing the lockdown to block the kimura. Lockdown + elbow in his hips and back flat on the floor (so theres no space for him to turn your arm) = reasonably good defense.

    Then you keep stretching the lockdown and shaking him back and forth to free yourself.
     
  10. Gsoares2***

    Gsoares2*** Banned Banned

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    Don get flattened out and you should be fine. Switch between a deep halfguard, and the underhook game.

    Ill work on it tonight and let you know what i would do.
     
  11. Shaldag

    Shaldag Orange Belt

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    Yes, Im referring to another thread, that is probably on page 2 now, in which people were claiming that guillotines and kimuras are low percentage.
     
  12. TacWar

    TacWar Green Belt

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    where was this thread last night before I went to no-gi...we have a guy that is built like jeff monson (just not as exaggeratted, and a bit shorter). Seriously he is like rolling with a damn medicine ball. if you get him in half guard he lays on you until he gets your arm. his entire game is the kimura and since his arms are so close to his body his leverage is just awesome when he goes for the kimura. last night kimura'd three times wile trying to go underneath him in half guard, I'd get under his leg bring him up for the sweep and he just grabbed my arm and took kimura after kimura. Really if I roll with him I want to be on top, but me wanting to work my weaknesses has put me in bad positions against him for the past month.
     
  13. L1l3v1l

    L1l3v1l White Belt

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    Maybe I am missing the point of this thread or I am looking at it too simply, but I always do one escape for the kimura from half-guard: use the close-side knee to break his grip. I saw this on Gustavo Machado's Great Escapes and Counters DVD, and it works like a charm. For those who don't know, you basically use the knee that it on the same side as the kimura'd-arm to push his arm that is closest to your hips off. You then go back to your underhook.
     
  14. Amar

    Amar Feelin' Froggy? Leap

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    It's hard for me to visualize that but I will try it out during tonights class.
     
  15. Kimuralex

    Kimuralex Brown Belt

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    better yet, try out shaldags advice

    he has you in a kimura on your left arm, you get a scorpion on him, straighten him out, with your right hand push on his left hip while simutaneously straightening the arm that he is trying to attack. from there, he falls into an arm triangle.

    shaldag showed me this, and it has worked for me when I tried it. I did not get the arm triangle, but i got out.
     
  16. Amar

    Amar Feelin' Froggy? Leap

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    Yeah that one seems more solid, I do like the idea that from that defense can possibly transition into a sub.
     
  17. Delbjj

    Delbjj Green Belt

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    So wait, yoyu have the scorpion deathlock from half guard
     
  18. Shaldag

    Shaldag Orange Belt

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    If i understand you correctly iv had alot of success with this from the bottom of crosside, you shrimp the wrong way (hips into the opponent) and use your kimura'd side knee to break the grip (the reverse triangle will be waiting for you :) ) never tried it (yet) from bottom half guard but it seems like it might be alil more awkward or feed the pass/kneebar.
     
  19. Amar

    Amar Feelin' Froggy? Leap

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    For them to do the standing indian/scorpion deathlock on you they would have to let go of the Kimura, and when they do you can un-scorpion your legs
     
  20. Gsoares2***

    Gsoares2*** Banned Banned

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    Scorpion Deathlock is Stings finish

    [​IMG]
     

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