Avoiding a guard pass, HELP!!!

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Loaf10

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Ok let me break it down for you guys. I am a white belt and only have been traing for a few months. I have been blessed with shorter legs. i'm about 5'11 and 200 lbs. when i fight guys my own weight they are usually alot taller and have longer legs. i know i could lose a few pounds but that isn't happening anytime soon so here is my problem. its very hard for me to keep my guard closed, guys pass my guard all the time and i am not very good at the open guard. (wow maybe i am in the wrong sport) anyway, are there any good instructional videos, books, any refrence material that will help me with hand and feet placement, sweeps to avoid someone passing your guard. I got manhandled today by a guy that was way biggier then me, and i know i shouldn't try fighting a guy bigger then me from my back but he got me down and i couldn't do much. he opened my guard with ease, grabbed my legs and through them aside and next thing you know he had me in sidemount. i am sure this has been discussed on here before, so i will use the search function now but i would like to here from you more experienced grapplers. Thanks guys, this is the only forum on sherdog i enjoy reading anymore. too many annoying ufc and pride experts for this guy to handle. you guys in the grappling forum are all class acts, seeya and thanks
 
ok let me tell you, with only a few months of training no matter how long or short your legs are your guard WILL be passed! Just keep practicing with the focus being on regaining guard as they are passing.

Keep training and good luck!
 
i wake up in the morning passing guard. unless my gf doesnt want me too ;)
 
Get "The Essential Guard" by Kid Peligro and Rodrigo Medeiros ... it has plenty of drills and good guard replacements ... i have it and it is worth the money
 
Loaf, I've been blessed with the same affliction: a normal torso atop midget legs. Plus, most of the guys I roll with are bigger (fatter), like your situation. So....
because of that I have all but abandoned a closed guard against anyone even remotely bigger than me. I go right to the butterfly. Actually I think it's a modified butterfly, because I park my feet right on the opponents hips and then push away. I'll also push at their knees and shins, anything to kind of keep stretching them out. Sometimes I end up sitting up as they're getting flattened out.

Keep control of their sleeves (if gi) while doing this, and kind of "steer" (yes, like a steering wheel) them off balance, and keep stretching them out by pushing on hips, knees, shins. Or underhook, or whatever feels right at the moment. The key is to just keep stretching the guy out. It's like you're on a stair climbing machine. Keep "climbing", each step knocking out his supports.
Give it a try and do me a favor, let me know how it works if you don't mind.

At some point maybe you can arm drag and get the back, but that's another thread.
 
Thanks to all the guys who wrote back. few months is actually 6 or 7. again thanks alot.
 
Bubble Boy said:
Loaf, I've been blessed with the same affliction: a normal torso atop midget legs. Plus, most of the guys I roll with are bigger (fatter), like your situation. So....
because of that I have all but abandoned a closed guard against anyone even remotely bigger than me. I go right to the butterfly. Actually I think it's a modified butterfly, because I park my feet right on the opponents hips and then push away. I'll also push at their knees and shins, anything to kind of keep stretching them out. Sometimes I end up sitting up as they're getting flattened out.

Keep control of their sleeves (if gi) while doing this, and kind of "steer" (yes, like a steering wheel) them off balance, and keep stretching them out by pushing on hips, knees, shins. Or underhook, or whatever feels right at the moment. The key is to just keep stretching the guy out. It's like you're on a stair climbing machine. Keep "climbing", each step knocking out his supports.
Give it a try and do me a favor, let me know how it works if you don't mind.

At some point maybe you can arm drag and get the back, but that's another thread.
Click to expand...

excellent post, im in the same boat and ive been working on this exact strategy and i was wondering if it would work.

i also like to use the de la riva guard and move around toward either side, lookin for a sweep or to take his back. i never ever work closed guard, it gets killed (not opened, killed :redface: ) and passed way to easily.
 
control hands, do not let knee in your tail bone... i'll switch up like i'm going to sweep. or i open my guard and lock their legs in. sometimes i place my feet on their hips, knees, thighs, grab collars and pull with my hands and push with my feet. i sometimes let them start to pass and try to sink a triangle. i keep pulling down on them by neck or collar, to try to set up kimura. i'll try to trap their arm on my head and arm bar. it all depends, but these are some of the things i do.
 
I'm a fat bastard with short legs and I've more or less discarded the closed guard when fighting big guys 'cause my feet are all midgety and open guard is hazardous 'cause my slow ass can't keep up with someone darting around.
BUT, the half guard works nicely I might add. I'm strong and can either tire people out from my half or sweep them which works perfectly due to my short legs and my planetary gravitational pull when I get a sweep going.
Short-arse legs are designed to make you a halfguard player just bug your instructor to teach you some halfguard moves and work them like crazy. Good luck.
 
You also might want to develope a good butterfly and half guard.
 
dont get so bent out of shape about your guard getting passed. You will fail a million times before you succeed once. The sooner you figure that out.. the better off youll be. Dont care if the guy passes just do your best to try an stop it.

Dont be afriad to try an play an open guard game. At first youll be forgetting where to put your feet, and what to do. But over time you will develop problems that happen again and again to you. You can then take those problems to your coach and he can give you solutions.. on what you should be trying to do, or looking for. I play alot of open guard now.. but it took getting smashed and guard passed every day for a year and ah alf to where im starting to feel completely comfortable with my guard open against white belts and new blues.

Practice, practice, pratice. Practice makes perfect.... There is a reason you hear that phrase with almost every sport out there. Thats because it is what makes the difference. You have to know the way something feels.. the way a move is supposed to feel when it is right. There is no replacement. You can watch a move a thousand times and still not know dick about it.. when it comes down to it you have to put your self in the driver seat and just keep training..

If you have a good coach take advantage of what he has to offer. I think to often guys want to try new moves from dvd's or the internet... (myself included).. and we dont take advantage of the best resource we have. Start trying to play a guard you like alot, or you see your coach do alot. When you run into problems.. he will be able to help you out the most. He sees how you fight, what moves will work well for you, and will be happy to see you are understanding more and more about how the guard works.. by the questions you ask.
 
350 lbs fist said:
BUT, the half guard works nicely I might add. I'm strong and can either tire people out from my half or sweep them which works perfectly due to my short legs and my planetary gravitational pull when I get a sweep going.
Short-arse legs are designed to make you a halfguard player just bug your instructor to teach you some halfguard moves and work them like crazy. Good luck.
Click to expand...

Good idea. Personally my stubby legged half guard sucks donkey doo-doo, and I just find myself holding on for dear life, BUT, you made a damned good point 350 lb fist. Time to develop my halfguard...
 
If they do start passing, block the hip straight away. Make sure your arm is straight, and your hand is secure on their hip. Then shrimp away and turn back into them. Just try to get a knee back inside them (across their abs), then keep making room and turn back to open guard.

Once you get used to doing this without thinking, start looking for sweeps as you turn back in. Control an arm, drop a foot to their knee and push it away etc, anything to off balance them. Just look for anything and you'll eventually learn where to get sweeps.
 
I really appreciate all the advice, like i said in my first post i knew you guys would take the time and help out a fellow grappler.

cheers!!
 
I used to have this problem, but once you start doing little things.... "Keeping his knees down on the mat with your hands" *dont hold his knees down with your hands, rather quickly push them down then bring your hands back*. If you can disrupt his knees and keep them planted, there is nothing he can do except rely on his arms more which will put him at risk for armbars/triangles. The last thing I want to say is if you feel like you have to use a closed guard keep your legs locked as high as possible! "A muai thai grip with your hands on his head helps in leverage to move your legs up by his shoulders." Work out your abdominal muscles/obliques. your midsection is like a hinge and greatly helps in curling and straitning out your body when need be.
 
word to the essential guard...great book

also, if youre having a tough time closing your guard, train exclusively in the open guard and get comfortable with it. just remember that you will get passed and prolly get passed frequently but do not give up. eventually, from all the motor memory, it will click and you'll see your guard improving

also, see if more experienced guys will take some time during open mat to help you with some open guard concepts and drill them with you....thats how i got better.
 
ya man if you work the open guard it can be really hard to pass. there is one blue belt who has an awesome guard pass, so once he goes into it i transition to an open guard. putting your feet on his hips and biceps (while holding the sleeve) can help you transition into sweeps and submissions. also if someone breaks my legs apart i will shoot my foot down and get a hook under their thigh, and kick up toward the ceiling. this almost always results in a beneficial scramble, or a successful sweep.
 
My bread and butter is the guard..hence, my screen name..

Main thing, when someone is in your closed guard:
Take your left hand and grip the guy's sleeve (where his elbow is at)
Then, take your right hand and grab the inside of his right lapel, make your hand go in right below his neck.

ALWAYS keep moving your hips looking for sweeps, triangles, armbars, and chokes and what not.

When they stack you to pass your guard, you MUST put a lot of weight on your legs and make your feet touch the ground, this will prevent the pass. Again, always control SOMETHING.

If you're using open guard (which you will because to go for triangles and armbars and sweeps and what not you have to OPEN your guard)..I like to stay on one side (like lay on one side almost, making only one of my hips touch the floor and the other one is partially off) Move your legs around and control at least one arm when in open guard

ALWAYS BE MOVING YOUR HIPS AROUND WHEN SOMEBODY IS IN YOUR OPEN GUARD. Moving your hips around will help you to find out where the guy is off base, this is good for sweeps

Have fun and good luck!
 
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