Athletic Lifting 101: For all Martial Artists

Am I the only striker in here?

Bench press= harder punches.

Yes, it does, hips & legs ain't everything.
 
yomon said:
why? there still growing like weeds and getting stronger.

You must have never had the pleasure of feeling the burn from a plyometric pushup in your arms or forcing against the whole wieght of your body in a handstand pushup.

i can vouch for this , i have not trained properly in a while , but when i trained pylo pushups i noticed my bis were worked as well as the main muscle groups you would expect. ,also with handstand pushups noticed a fair bit in the lats.

pylo pushups & handstant pushups = the shizzle
 
yomon said:
why? there still growing like weeds and getting stronger.

You must have never had the pleasure of feeling the burn from a plyometric pushup in your arms or forcing against the whole wieght of your body in a handstand pushup.
headstand pushups dont work the bi's, bro. you'd have to describe the plyo pushups but if those are the bouncy ones, they can strain the ligaments in your chest.

if you're getting any benifit in your bicepts it's just because they're getting bloodflow. if you did bicept work your curl would be better than it is now. that you're seeing right now is jsut base strength from being active.

ex. if you never bench but you're active and play sports and etc, of course your bench will be better than that of someone who does nothing. just as a comparison.
 
I've heard that doing push-ups with a wide "grip" or whatever, actually does help the biceps grow and strengthens them. I'm not sure about it, though..
 
Iceman5592 said:
Okay guys, I figured we'd put this together for people who need to learn the difference between basic bodybuilding exercises and functional, athletic movements. I'll put in my knowledge, but I know guys on here like Urban and Carnal will be able to tell you a lot more than me.

-Bodybuilding gets trashed on here so much because it can actually be detrimental to sports performance. With isolation exercises like curls, you're, in effect, retraining your Central Nervous System (CNS) to use one specific muscle group. By nature, your CNS recruits multiple muscle groups to complete a task (hence why when you see beginner lifters, they try to put their back into doing curls). Your CNS isn't wrong for doing this. In any athletic movement, especially martial arts, you will never use just one muscle group. So why train your body to do this?

-One of the things you should seek through lifting is balance training. Without balance, your stength pretty much has no use. Sacrifice some extra weight and instead work on balance training. For example, instead of a bench press, try using two dumbbells and a Swiss ball. Now, I didn't say replace your bench press with this, but every once in a while, switch over to the dumbbells and Swiss Ball. Personally, I believe dumbbells are better than barbells, because they force your weaker side to work as hard as your dominant side. Equal strength on both sides = greater athletic balance = greater performance.


I have to go, but I'll add more. Feel free to chip in.

bunch of bullshit except for the dumbells and swiss ball
 
wenispinkle said:
i love how bench press is the only lift that is ever getting ridiculed for being "not sport specific" and "not functional". theres no such thing as a sport specific lift. when was the last time you put a guy you were grappling with on your back and squatted him, or cleaned and push pressed him? youve never done it, but it doesnt mean these movements are useless, they are in fact very important. so stop acting like bench press is the only lift in the world thats not specific to fighting

I said that there are BETTER lifts to use then the bench press. If you want to bench, go on ahead. I don't really care. But in the end, bench isn't going to help as much as say a push press, plain and simple. Yes bench is a compound motion, but its still much to focused on the chest, something that is rarely used in a grappling situation. However a push press (Or simple overhead press) is much better in strengthening muscles groups used in say controlling an opponents arms. Shoulders, upper back, triceps, and to some extent the biceps.


SwiftMcvay said:
For all of you saying bench press is useless in grappling. Pick two noobs. First, roll with the guy who benches 180 and squats 250. Then, go against the guy who benches 300+ and squats 400+. Now tell me if you can notice the strength difference, and tell me who is a lot harder to beat, and unless the weaker guy is phenomenal technique for a noob, the stronger guy will be MUCH harder to beat. Thats how it is from my experience anyway.

Sorry guy, but this is just plain bad logic. You are saying that if some guy that is stronger in two lifts some other guy does, he's stronger. Come on man. That and you included squats. My contention is that someone who say overhead presses (front) will ultimately be stronger in grappling then someone who benches in most situations. Now there might be that weird situation where this proves false, which I'm sure there is, but overall this should stand.

And where the fuck did I say anything about squats being useless? Honestly, when you people take more time reading and less time putting words in my mouth, we might actually be able to have a conversation. And yes, by the way, I have squatted a 260 pound man on my back before. So I have no idea where your point is in that. Squats, good mornings, and deadlifts are great way to strenthen the ability to bomb people. I never ONCE said that squats are not useful in grappling.

THIS IS MY CONTENTION: Read it well. THERE ARE MUCH BETTER COMPOUND MOTIONS THEN BENCH PRESSING WHEN IT COMES TO GRAPPLING/FIGHTING. Is it that hard to read?

When someone actually wants to have a debate about this, I would more then like to. But that takes actually reading what I write.
 
bck said:
I've heard that doing push-ups with a wide "grip" or whatever, actually does help the biceps grow and strengthens them. I'm not sure about it, though..

Push ups are a pressing movement, hence they will not work the biceps!!
 
Madmick said:
Am I the only striker in here?

Bench press= harder punches.

Yes, it does, hips & legs ain't everything.

I'm not saying you're wrong but I haven't found that to be true. I've seen much better results using pressing movements which involve the legs as well (i.e. neider press, push press, clean and press). The bench press mimics more of a pushing movement IMO!

P.S. I am a striker as well.
 
So what excercises do you guys recommend for doing bicep work? As far as something that can be done at your standard gym.
 
Well I never really do direct biceps work but on the rare occassion where I might hit them I usually favour thick bar curls and hammer curls!!
 
Sean S said:
And yes, by the way, I have squatted a 260 pound man on my back before. So I have no idea where your point is in that.
.


what the hell kind of grappling do you do where your trying to get your opponent up on your shoulders and squat him? you most likely did it has part of a grappling strength drill, not part of actual grappling, which was my point in that you never bench/squat/push press/deadlift your opponent in actual grappling but they are obviously very useful for building strength. maybe you should have read my post better
 
wenispinkle said:
what the hell kind of grappling do you do where your trying to get your opponent up on your shoulders and squat him? you most likely did it has part of a grappling strength drill, not part of actual grappling, which was my point in that you never bench/squat/push press/deadlift your opponent in actual grappling but they are obviously very useful for building strength. maybe you should have read my post better
well, if you cant affort weights and you have cousins, i guess you're in luck.
 
OpethDrums said:
bunch of bullshit except for the dumbells and swiss ball

I'd really like to see where you're getting this opinion from.


To the guy who made the comment about defending armbars - you need to be honest with yourself. Are you really doing curls because you want to defend armbars, or do you just want big biceps? Unless you have unbelievably strong biceps for your weight class, you will not defend an armbar with any strength from your biceps. Ever. If you get armbarred, you're not going to wish you did curls; you're going to wish you did more armbar defenses.

To the person who made the comment about bench press = harder punches. That's debatable. But I'm a striker too. Explosive lifts, and more specific lifts like the Upright Neider Press, will develop stronger punches.

I have to go. I'll post more soon.
 
Fight_Song said:
headstand pushups dont work the bi's, bro. you'd have to describe the plyo pushups but if those are the bouncy ones, they can strain the ligaments in your chest.

if you're getting any benifit in your bicepts it's just because they're getting bloodflow. if you did bicept work your curl would be better than it is now. that you're seeing right now is jsut base strength from being active.

ex. if you never bench but you're active and play sports and etc, of course your bench will be better than that of someone who does nothing. just as a comparison.

you claim to know little about the exercise and have never tried yourself , and then go on to spread rumors about it.


they are a great exercise used for god knows how long by athletes of all types , good in any strength program. (wow look at that ross boxing video o_O )

i am not saying throw away your dumbbells and barbells , if you look around most people here like to talk about alternate methods of training , eg sledge hammer , sandbags etc.



pylo pushups ( clap version )

ClapPushUp.gif




Classification
Utility: Plyometric
Mechanics: Compound
Force: Push
Force (Articulation)

Dynamic

* Shoulder
o Transverse Flexion / Flexion
o
* Scapula & Clavicle
o Protraction
* Elbow
o Extension
* Wrist
o Flexion <----- this is where the forearm is getting worked and to a degree the bicep would vary on the way you did this and person to person.


Static

* Spine (Thoracic, Lumbar)
o Flexion
* Knee
o Extension



i wont claim that they are a bicep workout , i feel my biceps are worked out a little after i finish with the exercise , though no shit my chest tris and delts are worked to the core.

on here with most strength talk it is about strength and what is useful in main compound lifts and in mma , assistance lifts are fine but not a priority , when i do pull-ups that
 
wenispinkle said:
what the hell kind of grappling do you do where your trying to get your opponent up on your shoulders and squat him? you most likely did it has part of a grappling strength drill, not part of actual grappling, which was my point in that you never bench/squat/push press/deadlift your opponent in actual grappling but they are obviously very useful for building strength. maybe you should have read my post better

Simple, he was trying to take my back so I stood him up. Not to mention I have escaped many and armbar/triangle attempt by mock bombimg someone. (IE locking and lifting the person head level. Though I couldn't drop them because that's not really allowed in grappling. However, I can easily shake the person off.) So yes, I did read what you wrote and I still contend that the bench press is less usefull in overall strength then an overhead press in the context of grappling. I never said you actually set and pull someone like a deadlift. I said that things like deadlifts, squats, ect have a good carryover to grappling when it comes to strength. There are better compund motions to concentrate on, as a third main lift, then bench press.
 
Bench press = escape from side mount
 
Eric O said:
Bench press = escape from side mount

You know, I was thinking about that this morning. If I am thinking the same one you are, then it's more like an incline press or front over head pressing motion rather then a flat bench motion seeing as at some point you have to push the person away rather then straight up.
 
Do you guys see any application for the floor press in grappling?
 
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