Assume Trump, Dems please don't nominate Clinton!!

[Jack V Savage]

Most american's don't have a clue about policy beyond buzz words and catch phrases. Clinton and Sanders will just sound like dry, same ol, who gives a fuck. All Trump has to do is exert his personality and he will make both of them look silly.

Not everyone is a die-hard Republican like you, and it's not even about policy (you're right that Sanders and especially Clinton have a huge edge in that area); if they're on the stage at the same time, it will be very apparent who knows what they're talking about and who is just trying to wing it without bothering to have done any thinking or reading about policy. Trump comes off as a guy who is doing a book report on a book he didn't read all the time, but among the rest of the GOP clownshow, that doesn't stand out (and even someone who has done their homework but is advocating for cuts in capital gains taxes or other shit that not a single base voter cares about isn't going to win anyone over).

 

[VivaRevolution]

I don't know, but did you read the post you're responding to?

Yes, I agree with Speaks point. Today's polling info shows Sanders as stronger than Clinton in a GE.

Your rebuttal was that Clinton does well with Dems according to polls.

My response is questioning how she is doing with Independents, because the answer is not well, and they are the majority today.

 

[VivaRevolution]

have you not actually been watching clinton? i guess you get your information from 2 minute soundbites on your social media outlets.

i literally don't know what the fuck are you talking about. you are creating pros and cons based on completely stupid inferences and conclusions.

trump has no voting history - he has DECADES of his own history of being an egomaniacal lunatic.

and you don't know why clinton is a superior politician to jeb bush? is this a serious fucking question that you need answered for you?

go back to fucking school kid, jesus. let the grown ups talk about this.

I have been watching Clinton, and I have seen her get flustered debating policy, never mind the kind attacks Trump would bring at her.

If you don't get it yet. It isn't about policy, unless you make it about policy.

Politicians have been running on optics and identity politics for quite some time now, and Donald Trump has a PHD in optics, and identity politics.

 

[Fatt Hughes]

i like bernie, and I really believe he says what he means. However, he alone is the reason for the condition of his campaign at the moment. You can't be a gentleman against the clinton machine. It's laughable for Bernie to think that Hillary will keep it all about issues and not try dirty politics. Bernie should have hammered her on emails from the start, and utilize Trump tactics by branding Clinton. They pulled a fast one on him with the iowa caucus, with those coin flips, yet he let it go to solider on to N.H. Trump turned a shady Cruz trick from Iowa and branded Cruz that pretty much sank his campaign. Imo, Bernie is weak and non confrontation. Hillary exploited it twice, and Trump would have taken his lunch during the general. Perhaps not on the issues, but in his perception and branding.

 

[VivaRevolution]

i like bernie, and I really believe he says what he means. However, he alone is the reason for the condition of his campaign at the moment. You can't be a gentleman against the clinton machine. It's laughable for Bernie to think that Hillary will keep it all about issues and not try dirty politics. Bernie should have hammered her on emails from the start, and utilize Trump tactics by branding Clinton. They pulled a fast one on him with the iowa caucus, with those coin flips, yet he let it go to solider on to N.H. Trump turned a shady Cruz trick from Iowa and branded Cruz that pretty much sank his campaign. Imo, Bernie is weak and non confrontation. Hillary exploited it twice, and Trump would have taken his lunch during the general. Perhaps not on the issues, but in his perception and branding.

I do not believe that Bernie is being a gentlemen, I think he is being a calculating politician in taking the high ground, and waiting for Clinton to attack him.

He believes his policies are better, and wants to debate on those grounds.

Edit: FYI, I have been copying Bernie's playbook in here, and it is amazing how well it works.

Just look at how IGIT posts on this board, and how his demeanor gives him the high ground, and an advantageous position in optics.

 

[TheComebackKid]

Not everyone is a die-hard Republican like you, and it's not even about policy (you're right that Sanders and especially Clinton have a huge edge in that area); if they're on the stage at the same time, it will be very apparent who knows what they're talking about and who is just trying to wing it without bothering to have done any thinking or reading about policy. Trump comes off as a guy who is doing a book report on a book he didn't read all the time, but among the rest of the GOP clownshow, that doesn't stand out (and even someone who has done their homework but is advocating for cuts in capital gains taxes or other shit that not a single base voter cares about isn't going to win anyone over).

Well anything is possible but I think you are over-stating just how impressive Clinton or Sanders will look to people. You being one of Clinton's biggest supporters and fans may not realize just how disliked, unimpressive, and self serving people view her as. And I don't see Sanders swaying anyone in the middle but I could see Trump doing it.

But hey I'm not political expert and I can't read minds so who knows but I don't think the election will be decided on the debates.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Yes, I agree with Speaks point. Today's polling info shows Sanders as stronger than Clinton in a GE.

Speak made multiple points that were mostly false. Is Sanders breaking turnout records or has turnout been low? Are more policy-focused voters favoring Sanders in the primary? Is there any reason to think that more primary voters would vote again in the general for Sanders than for Clinton? You know the answer to all of those.

Your rebuttal was that Clinton does well with Dems according to polls.

Not really. I'm saying that general election polls are greatly overstating Sanders' actual chances at this point because of how little-known he is and because Republicans to date have been rooting for him to win (rightly or wrongly, it's clear that they regard him as the less-threatening candidate). If he were to win the general, he would get the same kind of dishonest smearing that Clinton has gotten for the past 20-plus years and it would eat into his support.

My response is questioning how she is doing with Independents, because the answer is not well, and they are the majority today.

Self-described "independents" are as reliably partisan as self-described Democrats or Republicans. The "independent" label just mixes them up.

Well anything is possible but I think you are over-stating just how impressive Clinton or Sanders will look to people. You being one of Clinton's biggest supporters and fans may not realize just how disliked, unimpressive, and self serving people view her as. And I don't see Sanders swaying anyone in the middle but I could see Trump doing it.

But hey I'm not political expert and I can't read minds so who knows but I don't think the election will be decided on the debates.

Heh. Republicans view Clinton that way. Some fanatical Sanders supporters here do. She is overwhelmingly popular among liberals, and has some support from others. Trump is pretty much 50/50 on favorables in his own party and is viewed extremely unfavorably by others.

But, yeah, fair point on the debates. It's a small factor at best. Trump is getting thumped by either Sanders or Clinton, though.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

When I look at the GOP primary turnouts, I wonder if anybody can beat Trump.

 

[Fawlty]

Sam Harris made a good point the other day that Sanders has simply not faced the wrath of the republican slime machine, and his theoretical future poll numbers against them are reflective of that. Socialism- even perfectly reasonable and reliable FDR socialism- is out of the question right now in an America that has gone so far right. Consider that Hillary has been under constant, slanderous fire by the party since 1992. Sanders not so much. Putting up Sanders for the reason that he polls well against the field is stupid. Put him up because you believe a man of his honesty and ideals should be leading this country.

 

[theBLADE1]

bernie is a non christian socialist - he's going to repeat the word socialist a zillion times and placate american fear and ignorance of equating socialism with communism. he won't even have to address anything of substance in a debate, just mock bernie as a ridiculous idealist.

literally every hypothetical you bring up regarding this issue is like the opposite of what would most likely happen.

All except for people have been saying this exact line about Bernie ad nauseam since he decided to run And it still hasn't hurt him or slowed him down since he is polling better against the GOP Hillary. Not too bad for a socialist Jew

 

[Quipling]

Why on earth do people think being called a socialist is going to be a problem in the democrat primary? It's the GE where it's likely to be an issue.

 

[Fatt Hughes]

Hendo, you still hopeful about Bernie? In your opinion, what do you think his path to nomination is from S.C., Super Tuesday and beyond?

 

[Anung Un Rama]

Sam Harris made a good point the other day that Sanders has simply not faced the wrath of the republican slime machine, and his theoretical future poll numbers against them are reflective of that. Socialism- even perfectly reasonable and reliable FDR socialism- is out of the question right now in an America that has gone so far right. Consider that Hillary has been under constant, slanderous fire by the party since 1992. Sanders not so much. Putting up Sanders for the reason that he polls well against the field is stupid. Put him up because you believe a man of his honesty and ideals should be leading this country.

Hillary hasn't felt the full force of a Trump attack. He could own her or his rhetoric could backfire.
It may sound corny, but Sanders has the truth on his side, something none of his competition has had or will have.

 

[sloppypie]

Why on earth do people think being called a socialist is going to be a problem in the democrat primary? It's the GE where it's likely to be an issue.

precisely.

Sam Harris made a good point the other day that Sanders has simply not faced the wrath of the republican slime machine, and his theoretical future poll numbers against them are reflective of that. Socialism- even perfectly reasonable and reliable FDR socialism- is out of the question right now in an America that has gone so far right. Consider that Hillary has been under constant, slanderous fire by the party since 1992. Sanders not so much. Putting up Sanders for the reason that he polls well against the field is stupid. Put him up because you believe a man of his honesty and ideals should be leading this country.

absolutely. and the reason they've been on her nuts for such a long time is b/c they are genuinely afraid of her in the general election.

right now sanders is dismissed by the republican machine in a similar fashion ron paul was. the very second his feet touch down as the democratic nominee for president, expect a tornado of propaganda and fear mongering to hit us hard.

if bernie wins, i hope he doesn't lose due to republican fear mongering. but people are seriously (and i can't emphasize that word enough) underestimating just what an uphill battle it's gonna be for him against a guy like trump.

 

[Graves The Elder]

love how Spike Lee publicly endorsed Bernie Sanders
Spike Lee Endorses Bernie Sanders For President | Deadline
"if elected, he'll 'do the right thing'."
awesome

 

[Anung Un Rama]

Why on earth do people think being called a socialist is going to be a problem in the democrat primary? It's the GE where it's likely to be an issue.

The Clinton Campaign obviously thinks its a big deal, although to be fair they accuse him of being a communist.

The dossier, prepared by opponents of Sanders and passed on to the Guardian by a source who would only agree to be identified as “a Democrat”, alleges that Sanders “sympathized with the USSR during the Cold War” because he went on a trip there to visit a twinned city while he was mayor of Burlington.

Similar “associations with communism” in Cuba are catalogued alongside a list of quotes about countries ranging from China to Nicaragua in a way that supporters regard as bordering on the McCarthyite rather than fairly reflecting his views.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-sympathiser-hillary-clinton-us-election-2016

 

[Fawlty]

Hillary hasn't felt the full force of a Trump attack. He could own her or his rhetoric could backfire.
It may sound corny, but Sanders has the truth on his side, something none of his competition has had or will have.

I would buy that if the socialism stigma did not carry over into the moderate left and depress voters. It's hard to predict how debates will go against somebody who is as much of a vulgar and popular liar as Trump, but if we're not seeing the mythical young-voter groundswell by now, it's probably not going to happen in the general. Bernie turns off a lot of older voters. I wish that were not the case.

 

[Graves The Elder]

contrary to the opinion of many young voters, Bernie being a Brooklyn Jew is a huge problem for many older voters.
"omg, a Jew in the white house, ass kissing to israel! being forced to eat kosher stuff all the time! no way!"

 

[Fawlty]

contrary to the opinion of many young voters, Bernie being a Brooklyn Jew is a huge problem for many older voters.
"omg, a Jew in the white house, ass kissing to israel! being forced to eat kosher stuff all the time! no way!"

Hate to say it, but good point. It's been nice that nobody has really gone after his ethnic/religious background yet, but that is definitely gonna happen if he gets past the primaries.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

contrary to the opinion of many young voters, Bernie being a Brooklyn Jew is a huge problem for many older voters.
"omg, a Jew in the white house, ass kissing to israel! being forced to eat kosher stuff all the time! no way!"

Sadly, a friend of mine made this same complaint. I couldn't believe it.
Went on about how America needs a Christian POTUS. Mind you, this hypocrite hasn't stepped foot in a Church in years.
He's a Trump guy. Those Trump guys are pretty much impossible to deal with re: politics.