ASoIaF/GoT MEGA-SPOILERS Thread v15

[Doughbelly]

but dragons

But plot armor, really.

 

[new_mexico1]

Does what in this series has ever had a pleasant finish.

Que?

 

[wlu29]

But plot armor, really.

sorry, i don't understand

 

[Calibur]

Que?

Lo siento. I merged two sentences. Basically I'm pointing out that nothing goes as planned in this series.

Dany could die anyday now. Hell I think GRRM might do it just for fun.

 

[shunyata]

Why didn't people rebel against Robert's drinking and whoring?

He was bankrupting the kingdom which I assume has tax implications for the 7 other kingdoms?

It was mostly the two massive civil wars that bankrupted the kingdom (Robert's Rebellion and later the War o da Five Kings).

 

[shunyata]

im going to fucking wet myself when jon snow utters 'edd, fetch me a block'. then im going to cry a thousand tears as hes stabbed

I can't speak for others, but I interpreted this sentence as Frenzy peeing on herself from excess laughter / glee at the execution of Slynt.

 

[Pecker123]

It was mostly the two massive civil wars that bankrupted the kingdom (Robert's Rebellion and later the War o da Five Kings).

Its explicitly stated that Aerys left an overflowing treasury. Robert spent it and then amassed huge debts but we are told this was due to his love of tourneys etc not due to debts incurred by the rebellion.

Robert seized lands from Targaryen loyalists to enrich himself and his followers. Thats why Jon Connington was a lord but Red Ronnet just a landed knight.

The war of the five kings might have screwed things though with Cerseis misrule and winter coming.

 

[shunyata]

I think Lord Friendzone is killing that bitch. Then he smells her hair, cops a feel and kills himself.

Jorah is Azor Ahai, and he'll plunge a sword into Dany's heart and pull it out on fire.

 

[JadeOwl]

Why didn't people rebel against Robert's drinking and whoring?

He was bankrupting the kingdom which I assume has tax implications for the 7 other kingdoms?

Because almost nobody knows. This is not a modern society. There isn’t a 24 hour news cycle telling everybody that the Iron Throne is racking up debt. When Ned was told about the 6 million gold pieces the Crown owed he was in complete shock. He had no idea. And this is The Lord Paramount and Warden of the North, one of the most powerful and important nobles in the continent. If Ned didn’t know, you can bet its not common knowledge among the rest of the lords and that the smallfolk have absolutely no idea.

At the point that the series starts Littlefingers is still borrowing more and more to cover the deficit. The lords and the smallfolk were only going to find out about the debt when Littlefinger ran out of people to borrow from, because then, and only then the taxes were going to go up and the unrest would begin.

Word on the street is Dany won't be doing any more nude scenes, she wants to be taken seriously as an actor.

I’ve heard that rumor, but I don’t know how much stock I put in it. Didn’t Emilia Clarke do a play in Broadway were she had nude scenes?

Racking up enormous debt inevitably makes the commoners pay more taxes

I would be resentful if I was a common person funding whores for the king and going hungry etc

You would be right, if the commoners knew anything about it. As I said, the smallfolk were only going to find out about the Throne’s debt when the taxes went up, not before.

And the funny thing is, after the War of the Five Kings, when the taxes do go up to pay both Robert’s debt and the costs of the war, the smallfolk are going to assume it is all because of the war and remember Robert fondly, not as the guy responsible for screwing them over.

 

[liljoe]

so i haven't read any of the books or anything but the way the show makes it seems

dany is learning how to be a ruler

at the same time westeros is imploding within and whitewalkers are coming from the nort

2+2=4

dany comes and saves westeros and becomes ruler (maybe even introduce democracy to westeros?)

is it that obvious, or i don't know what i am talking about?

If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention. :icon_twis

 

[wlu29]

If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention. :icon_twis

well not necessarily happy

she can rule like a tyrant

basically from the show only, dragons are unstoppable

as long as she has dragons on her side, she can lay waste to anyone she wants

 

[thebluerider]

i think the dragons and the others are like forces of nature. humanity reset incoming.

 

[WalkenWouldOwn]

I don't know about that.

I think Dany's being written fairly well, in the sense that she's a young person with the responsibility of lives suddenly being being thrust upon her. When you're young and in such a position, you make decisions and do things to assert yourself that upon later reflection realize were arbitrary and capricious. That's not madness. That's just a part of the human experience in being over your head whether you realize it or not.

There's a saying in certain circles that leadership field experience is something you don't get until just after you first need it. In that sense, Dany's actually doing fairly well.

Agreed. I know it seems too obvious and too boring, but I would be OK if they just take the lame route and have Jon Targaryan and Dany Targaryan vanquishing the evil others and ruling Westeros side by side happily ever after with their wise bro Tyrion as hand of the king. And the 3 of them go dragon riding around the kingdom delivering peace and plenty, the end.

 

[Matt4786]

I don't know about that.
When you're young and in such a position, you make decisions and do things to assert yourself that upon later reflection realize were arbitrary and capricious. That's not madness. That's just a part of the human experience in being over your head whether you realize it or not.

The problem is that whenever she makes a mistake, she says "If I look back I'm lost", rather than actually reflecting on said mistakes. She also refuses to hear about her family from Barristan, which is a mistake. She can't even begin to address the family craziness if she doesn't know about it. And how is she gonna rule the 7 kingdoms when she knows nothing about them either? She's exceedingly foolish IMO.

 

[Matt4786]

I can't actually back this argument up, but I think the Starks are going to align themselves with the Others, at least Jon and Bran. They will get their revenge, but it's gonna be at the cost of Westeros. That's what I think GRRM meant by the ending being bittersweet.

 

[frenz]

I can't speak for others, but I interpreted this sentence as Frenzy peeing on herself from excess laughter / glee at the execution of Slynt.

yep.

 

[wlu29]

Agreed. I know it seems too obvious and too boring, but I would be OK if they just take the lame route and have Jon Targaryan and Dany Targaryan vanquishing the evil others and ruling Westeros side by side happily ever after with their wise bro Tyrion as hand of the king. And the 3 of them go dragon riding around the kingdom delivering peace and plenty, the end.

I get that jon and dany are possibly siblings

But tyrion?

 

[thebluerider]

there is a rumor that tyrion's mom fucked around with a targ and got knocked up with tyrion.

 

[Doughbelly]

sorry, i don't understand

As in, there's a deeper reason that (at a gut level) readers don't like Dany's story. They can quite put a finger on it at a very basic level, Dany's story is not like the others plot lines in GOT/ASOIAF.

In a world where potential protagonists (Ned, Robb, etc) are dropping like flies, Dany is on a classic Campbellian Hero's Journey. You know she can't die (just yet) and that the events that are written about serve Dany's story. For almost everyone else, the character's POV of serves the greater narrative. For Dany, the events of the books serve her predetermined story, not the other way around.

For all the reasons that people dislike Dany's story, the biggest unconscious reason people don't like her is that she's the one who lucks into 1st, 2nd and 3rd round byes right into the final match of the playoff championships.

 

[shunyata]

I get that jon and dany are possibly siblings

But tyrion?

Technically Dany would be Jon's aunt. Rhaegar + Lyanna Stark = Jon. Rhaegar was Dany's older brother.