Askren's problem was timing, not skill

BitFlip said:
No he wouldn't. Jay Heiron stopped his takedowns... he would have never touched UFC gold no matter when he came in. If he fought GSP or Hendricks a million times he wouldn't have won a single time.
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That was very early in Ben's career, he also said he wasn't working on his wrestling at all at the time and Heiron was also in his prime at the time.

I don't think he would have gotten UFC gold unless he was fighting Hendricks or Lawler, GSP would have been too well rounded for him but he did come to the UFC like 5-7 years too late.
 
It wasn't timing at all. Askren has basically been the best blanket for Bellator and then ONE. UFC always had way better blankets, especially during Askren's prime. GSP, Prime Jake Shields, Prime Jon Fitch, then you had better blankets who could also do it on the feet like USADA Johny Hendricks, Prime Josh Koscheck, Tyron Woodley, Rory Macdonald.

Askren would have been even worse off 6 years ago.
 
POWER2 said:
How do you get a belt without getting past Hendricks and GSP? LOL
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Lawler, there would have been a small chance for him to get the belt but he would have had to have the right opponent. I also think if Hendricks engaged in grappling with Askren there's a chance he would have gassed and lost but if he fought smart Hendricks likely would have beaten him.
 
TheToqueville said:
He came to the UFC too late in his career.....too much wrestling mileage on his body, and not fighting enough top tier fighters before he came over. 5-6 years earlier, he would have been a dominant champion. His pure wrestling is still better than 95% of these guys anyway.

Go ahead and pretend he's a can if it helps you sleep at night, but at least he didn't "catch colitis" when the killers came his way.
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He wasn't as good as these ufc killers
 
NoBiasJustMMA said:
That was very early in Ben's career, he also said he wasn't working on his wrestling at all at the time and Heiron was also in his prime at the time.

I don't think he would have gotten UFC gold unless he was fighting Hendricks or Lawler, GSP would have been too well rounded for him but he did come to the UFC like 5-7 years too late.
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Not working on his wrestling, that's horseshit, that's the only way for him to win a fight. I'd like to hear it, remember where you heard him say this? What happened against Santos? He forgot how to wrestle again?

I think Hendricks would have made short work of Askren. He could have blanketed Lawler... but he did get knocked out by him when they fought, I don't like his chances against a faster, stronger more ferocious Lawler. Still hard to predict, but at least it would be possible for him to win that fight.

What could have happened if he got to the UFC earlier was that he would have probably worked on his striking more and there would have been time to correct some things when he eventually lost.
 
BitFlip said:
Not working on his wrestling, that's horseshit, that's the only way for him to win a fight. I'd like to hear it, remember where you heard him say this? What happened against Santos? He forgot how to wrestle again?

I think Hendricks would have made short work of Askren. He could have blanketed Lawler... but he did get knocked out by him when they fought, I don't like his chances against a faster, stronger more ferocious Lawler. Still hard to predict, but at least it would be possible for him to win that fight.

What could have happened if he got to the UFC earlier was that he would have probably worked on his striking more and there would have been time to correct some things when he eventually lost.
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He said it on a podcast, that he wasn't working on his wrestling at all for that fight and that his brother whooped him in wrestling around that time and since then he went back to working on wrestling.

Santos is a front runner, he always looks good early then fades fast.

Hendricks likely beats him but if he engaged with Askren in grappling there would be a good chance he gassed and loses though I still favor Hendricks in that match up. Lawler would be better but so would Askren. The only time frame I think he could have been champ was when Lawler, Hendricks and Rory were the top 3 but I don't think I favor Askren over any of them but he would have the best chance vs Lawler.
 
NoBiasJustMMA said:
He said it on a podcast, that he wasn't working on his wrestling at all for that fight and that his brother whooped him in wrestling around that time and since then he went back to working on wrestling.

Santos is a front runner, he always looks good early then fades fast.

Hendricks likely beats him but if he engaged with Askren in grappling there would be a good chance he gassed and loses though I still favor Hendricks in that match up. Lawler would be better but so would Askren. The only time frame I think he could have been champ was when Lawler, Hendricks and Rory were the top 3 but I don't think I favor Askren over any of them but he would have the best chance vs Lawler.
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Ok, I don't believe that for a second. He's either a liar or the dumbest fighter on earth.

Sure, Santos was fading, Askren did get lucky avoiding getting soccer kicked in the face however... Askren also shot from the other side of the cage, just terrible to watch.

Yeah, we pretty much agree there.
 
The guys Askren fought in the UFC have all been around forever. They don't represent an evolution of the sport.
 
BitFlip said:
Ok, I don't believe that for a second. He's either a liar or the dumbest fighter on earth.

Sure, Santos was fading, Askren did get lucky avoiding getting soccer kicked in the face however... Askren also shot from the other side of the cage, just terrible to watch.

Yeah, we pretty much agree there.
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I doubt he was lying, he was still very new to MMA at the time and Damien Maia made the same exact mistake as well with more experience and Koscheck did the same thing too.
 
TheToqueville said:
He came to the UFC too late in his career.....too much wrestling mileage on his body, and not fighting enough top tier fighters before he came over. 5-6 years earlier, he would have been a dominant champion. His pure wrestling is still better than 95% of these guys anyway.

Go ahead and pretend he's a can if it helps you sleep at night, but at least he didn't "catch colitis" when the killers came his way.
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Oh boy I just gotta lol at "too much wrestling milage". Plenty of wrestlers have had good longevity in MMA. It is strikers that rely on fast twitch and reflexes that crash and burn later in career.

Right before Ben came to the UFC he said that he has had as much an injury free career as one could hope for and was pretty much in his prime, ready to "dominate" like his fangirls thought.

All he did was crush warm bodies for years. He never had intense world championship level training camps... was never in 5 round wars.

His funky style does not even rely on traditional athleticism as much, hence his success at a high level despite having the body of a 44yo recently divorced dad. If anything Ben is a far superior fighter than he was 5-6 years ago. Go back and watch his old fights he is even less dimensional.

Ben is just not a "consistently dominate top 10 UFC caliber WWs" kind of fighter, never was. Most are too well rounded or too dangerous for him, having JUST elite wrestling is not enough. If he was a natural fighter he would have made waves, but it was evident when he had not picked up the striking even after many years training at Rufous that he is not cut out for the highest level.
 
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Adoren problem was that he actually was a bum hype by some dumb people like TS.
 
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