Askren's problem was timing, not skill

[chinarice]

My feeling is that the UFC waited too long to get him.
In his best days, Askren could beat anyone. Lima (whom he beat) said that he did not see the same fire in Askren as back when he was beaten by him. I think Askren kind of went into the UFC half heartedly without that killer motivation. The key to this is that he effectively retired and was pulled from retirement. During those months in retirement, what it does to a man is take you out of the game. Just look at Conor and the joke he's become, or even GSP now that he's out of the testing pool. The desire to come back fades when you realise you can chill instead of train.

Lima just wasn't that good back then. He's saying what he's saying because a guy who beat him got obliterated by every guy he fought in the ufc. It's his way of convincing himself he is better than he is.

 

[mkt]

Johnny also beat Askren in wrestling in High School. Hendricks is a terrible matchup for Ben as is GSP as well. But everybody else after that? Hmmm I don't know I think he had a pretty good chance at that belt.

Hector Lombard fought at WW briefly and allegedly outwrestled Askren when they trained together at some point. I remember how he stuffed all of Jake Shields' TDs and judo tossed him all over the place. Jake had a great chin that kept him from getting KO'd but Hector would put Ben to sleep, just like prime Lawler and Hendricks would. Lombard was underwhelming at MW but was a very strong and competent grappler at WW...who also hit very hard.

Oh, and Palhares would take Askren's leg home and eat it for dinner.

 

[mkt]

He couldn't even fucking beat Damian Maia who's 42. This wasn't an issue with no being in his prime.

Yeah, it reminds me of "out of prime" Fedor losing to Hendo who was 6 years older and 20 pounds lighter. You just can't make excuses for some fights.

Maia from around 2012-2014 was a different beast...watch his fights with Fitch, Story, etc. He'd tie Askren in knots back then faster than he did in their recent fight.

 

[TheAmericanGazelle]

He would have done better if he were brought to the UFC in his prime, but there were definite skill issues in play, and it's kind of silly to pretend otherwise.

Him vs. GSP would have been a horror show (remember those talks?). Replay of Fitch/GSP, except twice as worse.

 

[mkt]

Maybe, maybe he could avoid getting KO'ed by Silva and lay on him for 25 minutes but I assume Silva would have sent him to another planet with a knee as well.

Weidman would have violated him

Oh gosh, he'd have done terrible at MW. Silva defimitely matrixes him and younger/better versions of Weidman and Rockhold would beat him like he was a 13-year old.

 

[chinarice]

Oh gosh, he'd have done terrible at MW. Silva defimitely matrixes him and younger/better versions of Weidman and Rockhold would beat him like he was a 13-year old.

Oh yeah.... His only chance was LW and I bet numerous LWs would have beat him as well

 

[mkt]

Oh yeah.... His only chance was LW and I bet numerous LWs would have beat him as well

Yes, and he was never willing to cut to 155. He talked about fighting Khabib but only at WW. It looks like Ben could've lost his love handles and some baby fat and made 155, but he never even considered it.

 

[JKS]

He came to the UFC too late in his career......5 years earlier and he would have been a dominant champion. His pure wrestling is still better than 95% of these guys anyway.

Go ahead and pretend he's a can if it helps you sleep at night, but at least he didn't "catch colitis" when going up against the killers.

He would have been a dominant champion?? LOL, sure. GSP would smoke Ben and so would Hendricks. The only champ he may have beat would be Lawler. I know he's got a "W" over Robbie, but let's be real, that was a F#$k up by Herb and we don't know how that would go. And let's consider that was Robbie in 2019, he was champ in 2014 to 2106. And no....Askren is not beating Woodley, he'd get KO'd.

People can say Askren wasn't successful cause he came to late or whatever reason. Fact is he's just not that good. He could have been a top 10 WW at best.

 

[vanillaisis]

Yes, and he was never willing to cut to 155. He talked about fighting Khabib but only at WW. It looks like Ben could've lost his love handles and some baby fat and made 155, but he never even considered it.

He didn't consider it because his weight cut to 163 for the Olympics was fucking terrible. 165 would be perfect for him.

 

[Dirge]

He came to the UFC too late in his career......5 years earlier and he would have been a dominant champion. His pure wrestling is still better than 95% of these guys anyway.

Go ahead and pretend he's a can if it helps you sleep at night, but at least he didn't "catch colitis" when going up against the killers.

"His problem"?

He left Bellator in 2012 to come to the UFC but Dana and co. fucked him because he made the mistake of talking publically about consistent drug testing in MMA

 

[vanillaisis]

He would have been a dominant champion?? LOL, sure. GSP would smoke Ben and so would Hendricks. The only champ he may have beat would be Lawler. I know he's got a "W" over Robbie, but let's be real, that was a F#$k up by Herb and we don't know how that would go. And let's consider that was Robbie in 2019, he was champ in 2014 to 2106. And no....Askren is not beating Woodley, he'd get KO'd.

People can say Askren wasn't successful cause he came to late or whatever reason. Fact is he's just not that good. He could have been a top 10 WW at best.

Why couldn't Askren beat Woodley? Not that they would ever fight because they've been teammates since Ben was like 17 and they were both team captains at Missouri. Askren was and still is Woodley's wrestling coach not the other way around.

 

[mkt]

"His problem"?

He left Bellator in 2012 to come to the UFC but Dana and co. fucked him because he made the mistake of talking publically about consistent drug testing in MMA

Dana actually saved Ben from several embarrassing KO's/CTE and perhaps a career-ending knee injury since Palhares was still a UFC WW in 2012.

 

[chinarice]

Yes, and he was never willing to cut to 155. He talked about fighting Khabib but only at WW. It looks like Ben could've lost his love handles and some baby fat and made 155, but he never even considered it.

It was way easier for him to be a condescending dbag instead of losing that fat.....

 

[Buffmeister]

I would say...lack of skill...not timing...!

After like 10 years of Pro MMA...still no striking at all...
This makes you limited and predictable as fukk...

 

[eiyuu]

He came to the UFC too late in his career.....too much wrestling mileage on his body, and not fighting enough top tier fighters before he came over. 5-6 years earlier and he would have been a dominant champion. His pure wrestling is still better than 95% of these guys anyway.

Go ahead and pretend he's a can if it helps you sleep at night, but at least he didn't "catch colitis" when going up against the killers.

Well he was the one who kept saying he was the best.

Shouldn't have said so if he couldn't back it up.

 

[PlayswellwithLawnDarts]

Oh Sweet Jesus it’s so bad it’s Perfectl

 

[mkt]

I would say...lack of skill...not timing...!

After like 10 years of Pro MMA...still no striking at all...
This makes you limited and predictable as fukk...

In addition, his "unbeatable funky scrambles" and "amazing submission defense" were overrated. I don't think his MMA wrestling ever improved much from that old Flo-Wrestling video where Jake Shields dominated him. Granted, Maia is still dangerous at age 41, but plenty of fighters (Masvidal, Fitch, Rory, Shields, Nelson, etc) managed to grapple with Maia for long periods without getting subbed.

 

[BlessedSoldier]

Mas fight was a clear fluke and he beat Lawler at least

 

[mkt]

Mas fight was a clear fluke and he beat Lawler at least

The ref could've easily stopped the Lawler fight when Robbie was nearly decapitating Ben. And Robbie was a good 5 years past his prime....

 

[Buffmeister]

In addition, his "unbeatable funky scrambles" and "amazing submission defense" were overrated. I don't think his MMA wrestling ever improved much from that old Flo-Wrestling video where Jake Shields dominated him.

He would have fit way better in the late 90's...when it was basicly skill against skill...

I wasnt excited when he came to the UFC...and wasnt expecting big things from him...