Ashihara Karate and the Sabaki Technique

[AshiharaFan]

I think though shifting only works well if you're ambidextrous when it comes to working optimally out of orthodox or southpaw. I think most styles of Karate do a very good job of teaching you to be ambidextrous - I know I constantly stance switch myself and I owe it to training in Karate.

Yes, I agree with everything said in this paragraph. For those who do not practice Karate I think it's important to work your techniques from southpaw as well as orthodox for the reasons of ambidexterity Azam listed. It may be a little extra work but I believe well worth it.

By the way, I've always thought that Sensei Rick Hotton (the man in the video) has nice crisp technique and good swivel in his hips.

 

[Jimmy Jazz]

Yes, I agree with everything said in this paragraph. For those who do not practice Karate I think it's important to work your techniques from southpaw as well as orthodox for the reasons of ambidexterity Azam listed. It may be a little extra work but I believe well worth it.

By the way, I've always thought that Sensei Rick Hotton (the man in the video) has nice crisp technique and good pivot in his hips.

I agree Rick is great. I thought pivots were in your feet?

 

[AshiharaFan]

I agree Rick is great. I thought pivots were in your feet?

Well yes, but your pivot should always be accompanied by a sharp swivel of the hips and not everyone does that or does it very well. Rick Hotton, Sensei is one of those people who does this very well. So swivel or turn is the correct term that I should have used. Thus, I amended my post.

 

[ARIZE]

The swivel you mention, is like the D' Amato shift in the Tyson video from mongler on the front page?

One of the benefits from TMA (ITF for me) is to be comfortable in both stance. My combinations may not be as good from the southpaw side, but my footwork is as good as the orthodox. It has helped me a lot in MT.
It also helps a lot to keep you moving forward with strong strikes from the rear, since the striking feet is planted in front of you, you don't have to switch to make the other foot do a power kick. You just keep blasting alternating your feet, moving forward. (if your opponent moves backwards)

 

[Stoic1]

Watch:

The Sabaki Challenge (In the early 90's around the time the UFC started to get popular this competition was particularly brutal here in the US)




The Fighting Black Kings (Joko Ninomiya All Japan Champion and founder of the Enshin System drops a guy with a crushing body hook is seen here)

 

[Ryukyu Damashi]

That movement is very common in Muay Thai.

 

[AshiharaFan]

The swivel you mention, is like the D' Amato shift in the Tyson video from mongler on the front page?

It is my opinion that they are not mechanically the same though the principle of each maneuver is the same. The main principle of shifting, as far as I know, is taking angles and covering ground while switching from orthodox to southpaw or vice-versa. With shifting I believe that you do not have to be set in your stance to deliver power shots. You can deliver them while still on the move.

With the swivel of the hips after the pivot I am speaking of is slightly different. With this it is not about covering ground, taking an angle or shifting from right leg forward to left leg forward or vice versa. That's how they differ. How they are similar is that both mechanical movements use the momentum of the hip turn to help deliver as much power as possible in your punches. With the way it is done in most Traditional Japanese Karate styles though is that the feet and the stance are set first to make maximum use of the pivoting motion and swivel of the hips for punching power.

Someone who is masterful at doing this will follow the mechanics perfectly while greatly minimizing that split second between setting in his stance and quickly pivoting into his punches (or blocks for that matter) while turning the hips into the punch or block as well. Some do this better than others.

 

[Hotora86]

Fun fact: "sabaki" is a phonetical representation of the word "dogs" in Russian.
Gives a whole new meaning to "sabaki challenge" and "sabaki technique".

 

[AshiharaFan]

Fun fact: "sabaki" is a phonetical representation of the word "dogs" in Russian.
Gives a whole new meaning to "sabaki challenge" and "sabaki technique".

So if sabaki was a style then I guess that means one who uses it is using the dog style?

 

[Hotora86]

So if sabaki was a style then I guess that means one who uses it is using the dog style?

Yes!
The phonetic "sabaki" (собаки) is both the plural for "dog" as well as the possessive case ("whose?" i.e. dog's).
Dog style indeed!

 

[Hotora86]

Okay @chirpsman and @Daniel Fox, here you go.

This video is old (1984) but probably still the best reference on the techniques and strategies involved in this bare knuckle, full contact karate system.

I would be the first to say that not all of it is practical. For instance, no one is going to punch and just leave their arm hanging out there. Also, I usually tell people to expect to eat some blows in a real fight. In a real fight you will get hit. But this reference video explores the potential, the possibilities and the desired game plan.

Some of this reminds me of Machida's pivots he stresses in his DVD:

 

[ARIZE]

@AshiharaFan

Ok, thanks man.

 

[AshiharaFan]

Some of this reminds me of Machida's pivots he stresses in his DVD:

Yes, essentially the same thing. Lyoto uses the term Tai Sabaki (or as the narrator on the dvd pronounced it, Ty Sock Baaki ) to describe and demonstrate basically the same thing as in the Ashihara video which is the four basic footwork positions and the variations of those positions.

Hideyuki Ashihara did not invent or create anything new with his sabaki method. In fact, sabaki IS TAUGHT in Kyokushin which is where I'm sure H. Ashihara got the idea in the first place. Also "Tai Sabaki" is a very important concept in Okinawan Karate as well as Shotokan and definitely Wado Ryu Karate.

Why H. Ashihara stands out is that I believe he was the first to make the sabaki technique a point of focus and emphasis and stressed it from the very beginning of the student's training. He focused so much on the concept that he developed a mountain load of strategies, techniques, drills, combos and fighting game plans based upon it. This is how Ashihara Karate (and derivatives) stand out and this is what captured people's attention to his style of fighting. Even though it's mostly common sense you'd be surprised how underdeveloped this concept is and how under practiced the technique is outside of Ashihara (and derivatives) and Wado Ryu Karate.

 

[Uchi Mata]

The swivel you mention, is like the D' Amato shift in the Tyson video from mongler on the front page?

One of the benefits from TMA (ITF for me) is to be comfortable in both stance. My combinations may not be as good from the southpaw side, but my footwork is as good as the orthodox. It has helped me a lot in MT.
It also helps a lot to keep you moving forward with strong strikes from the rear, since the striking feet is planted in front of you, you don't have to switch to make the other foot do a power kick. You just keep blasting alternating your feet, moving forward. (if your opponent moves backwards)

ITF TKD is so much better than WTF TKD when transitioning into actual fighting. Funny enough, I have a TKD background and I find that in orthodox stances I fight more or less in Dutch kickboxing style (that being what I primarily practice now), but when I shift into southpaw which I've practiced very little with my KB coach I go straight TKD again with the super bladed stance, low front hand, looking for side kicks.

 

[ARIZE]

I know what you mean. In MT, when i get in a southpaw stance, i often catch myself a bit more sided than "proper" MT stance, and that make me react a lot more with sidekicks than teeps. (until a proper low is landed and reminds me of the basics)
But when i do some boxing it's even worse. In orthodox stance, i kind have a peek-a-boo style, cause I'm having lots of fun been low, bob and weave, heavy defense...
But if I get in a southpaw style, all of a sudden, i am in a philly shell style (like mayweather) with the front hand low, side stance etc and try to rely on speed, staying on the outside...(and i usually get destroyed because i have no idea how to box that way)

 

[shinkyoku]

Fun fact: "sabaki" is a phonetical representation of the word "dogs" in Russian.
Gives a whole new meaning to "sabaki challenge" and "sabaki technique".

Amusing since the typical dogfight (air warfare) is about getting into the opponents blind spot. Preferably his back. Just like sabaki

 

[Tayski]

is about getting into the opponents blind spot. Preferably his back. Just like sabaki

Sounds like doggy-style too.

 

[Hotora86]

Re-watching Chinzo's last KO win, I only now notice the side-step (or shift) he does right before the KO punch:

 

[AshiharaFan]

Re-watching Chinzo's last KO win, I only now notice the side-step (or shift) he does right before the KO punch:

Classic Shotokan Tai Sabaki and a slightly modified gyaku tsuki.

@ARIZE This is what I was talking about when I brought up the swivel of the hips after planting your feet and setting your stance. As I was saying earlier those who have mastered doing this in the heat of battle do not do it in a robotic one-two-punch fashion. They do it very fluidly. As Soon as Chinzo's stance was set (in the heat of battle) his attack was on it's way. He did it in one fluid motion and not robotically at all. Watch the replay in slow motion and listen to the commentary along with it.

Nice KO by the way.

 

[ARIZE]

Ok. Thanks for the added details. But I am really curious what a boxer has to say about that. ( @Sinister ) I am not experienced enough in the sweet science but it seems to me that the same concept applies to boxing strikes. Am I wrong? Is there a big difference?