I'm starting this thread here because I want to avoid the sillyness that is the MMA forum but Jebus. I just saw Loiseau's fight with McCarthy and what a way to win a fight using SOLID stand-up technique in MMA huh? Spinning back-kick into the flying knee, and then giving props to Dennis Alexio. I was even impressed with his defense against the single-leg after MISSING the jumping round-kick, and how he defended against giving his back to McCarthy. I think this mufucka is my favorite fighter in MMA right now. Seeing this combined with his victory over Tanner solidified it.
Watching UFC on Spike TV too bro? I agree with you that Loiseau is a a sick fighter with sweet stand up techniques.
Yeah man. I mean I've maintained that the day of the Striker has long-since been coming. The Wrestlers had their time, the butt-scoots had their time, now comes the day when smart stand-up guys can hang with them, and fighters like David are making it a reality.
I agree with you man, Loiseau's spinning back kick made me an instant fan since i come from a TKD background. Its nice to see new styles representing in the world of MMA esp. ones that are flashier. Hopeflly the MMA game will evlove and become deeper and we will see more varied fighters instead of carbon-copies of older ones.
Agreed. I mean I LOVED the beginning when it was style versus style. And now I see more guys are taking it back there. A lot of guys who trained in traditional Arts seem to be getting sick of hearing how "unreliable" they are and whatnot. Which is great IMO, it'll make for fun fights to come.
Yeah, except that the original point of their styles being unreliable is still true, the only thing that allows them to use these techniques effectively is an understanding in and training under all the different areas, thus making them mixed martial artists. I like the crow as well, but I hate it when people refer to him as a TKD stylist, he uses TKD, true, but it is in no way the same as would be tought in a TKD school, because for it to be effective he has had to add other skills to it. Sorry if the above comes off kind of insulting, but I don't think their is going to be an era of the striker, I think what is coming now is the era of the truly skilled individuals, who because of cross training can use all of the skills they have.
It works both ways imo. His knowledge in TKD makes him a better fighter then if he only knew other skills of mma. He is smart he uses new skills like Takedown defence and submission defence to set up his opponent for his TKD skills. His grappling and striking go hand in hand. Technichally he is a TKD fighter that is well versed in other areas as well.
I like the crow too but he gives up his back too easily. That will hurt him against more savvy submission fighters.
I sort of disagree with this. One thing he does that is actually very smart for strikers is he doesn't panic when taken down. I see a lot of guys panic and cover up too much, which leaves openings for them to be subbed in a split-second. It's VERY difficult to pull this off on David. He's always paying attention to what his opponent is doing. Evan Tanner is a VERY Savvy submission Artist and couldn't do it, McCarthy was RELYING on his ground game and couldn't do it. Not to say no one could, but David does exactly what you're supposed to do. Stay calm, block submission attempts, reverse the position, punish your man. You're more than welcome to your opinion, but I think you mis-interpret my point. Or at least show a little bit of favoratism towards grapplers, which is why I tend to not like to attempt to discuss this sort of thing with grapplers. When a Wrestler learns a bit of boxing and can hang with a stand-up guy, people talk about what a well-versed Wrestler he is who is a good MMA fighter. When a BJJ guy does the same thing people go "See? A grappler can beat a striker even on his feet!" But when a striker developes takedown and submission defense, people like to blather about how he had to completely abandon his striking style and change into an "MMA" fighter. MMA is not a style, it's a mix of styles. It has sort of birthed a set system of learning, but that doesn't make it a sound system IMO. And I think you can be either a striker or grappler, and learn to defend the opposite. When I say a day of the Strikers what I'm referring to is how the history of MMA has gone. For a time BJJ dominated EVERYTHING. Then Wrestling did. Now you're starting to see more guys with kickboxing and traditional Martial Arts backgrounds wanting to prove themselves. But the hilarious part is no one can accept that. You got Chuck Liddel coming into his own. You got that one dude from KOTC who does Karate, you got Loiseau, you got St. Pierre, you got Cro Cop, all these guys with solid stand-up fighting Arts backgrounds. And it all began being foreseeable when Maurice Smith beat Mark Coleman. People saw it WAS possible for a kickboxer to beat someone who was going to repeatedly take him down and lay on top of him. Of course they have to adapt to defend the ground and defend being put on the ground, that's the name of the game. But David calls HIMSELF a TKD Artist, and his word is a bit more credible on that than yours even though you hate that (for what reason I'm unclear).
I think, what we see now is the evolving of something like mma-standup. Some traditional standup techniques dont work when there is the possibility of a takedown etc. Or take counterpunching. In traditional standup you learn how to counter a punch. Now you have to learn how to counter a takedown as well (e.g. a combo consisting of defending the takedown and attacking back with strikes). Another reason why we see more and more flashing moves being used again is because the fighters are crosstrained today. So if the move doesnt work and the fighter is taken down, its not game over like in the old days beacause he is skilled on the ground as well.
What old days? One thing to always remember is that the World's best Strikers never really took much of an interest in MMA as a viable Sport until now that it's become more sport-like. The guys who repped stand-up Arts in the beginning were alright at-best. The ones who were at-all exceptional did rather well for themselves considering. Nowadays more credible Strikers are interested because of the examples set that striking can indeed make some headway, and now that the Sport has grown to where the risk/reward factor is more balanced out. Kickboxers for instance largely have the mentality of Boxers, they could make more money continuing in tournaments and Kickboxing Pro around the World. Where now MMA has more of an ability to suffice a living, you'll see more of the better Strikers throwing their hats in. But I agree on the evolution aspect. Though I think the better Strikers of the World have always considered being taken-down. A lot of the old-school guys, for instance, like Alexio, Blanks, Urquidez, Wallace, Lewis, and Wilson were pretty well-versed in Judo and other Arts to defend from the ground. They just largely were involved in competitions where they didn't much need it.
I saw a vid about Benny Urquidez (might have been one you made, actually) in his first match against a Muay Thai fighter; he started getting schooled trading kicks, and wound up taking the guy out with a pretty vicious Judo throw. I think it won him the match, but not many fans in Thailand (they thought it was a cheap shot). Anyway, I can't figure out why anyone would be surprised that MAM fighters would start taking some of the best parts of TMA (by the way, why is it that arts like Muay Thai and boxing, which predate many "traditional" arts by centuries, are not considered "traditional"? I've always wondered...) and mixing them in. Even guys like me who are not exactly scholars of MMA history know that it has been continually evolving, like so many other sports. If everybody is doing Muay Thai and grappling, the next generation of top fighters is going to need to start putting different tools in their toolbox to get an edge, and strikes like the jumping back kick (which Urquidez used to telling effect to win his *second* bout with a Muay Thai fighter) are likely to become more commonplace.
Rich Franklin's my boy, and his upcoming fight with the Crow is the first time I'm really worried about him. I was confident with him against Shamrock, Tanner and others, but I think the Crow will be a very hard test for Rich. Those elbows are frickin' brutal! Gonna be a good fight.
Are you referring to Maurice or Patrick? I wouldn't call Maurice from "the early days"...but Pat, definitely, and he did pretty well considering, too. But they both fit the bill. Maurice beats Coleman than goes on to give some of the most lackluster kickboxing matches I've ever witnessed.
