As of today, what are the top 5 kickboxing nations (not Muay Thai)

Snubnoze707 said:
Spong isn't coming back. Londt is decent. If you're born in the Netherlands you count for the Netherlands. It's the Kickboxing infrastructure of the Netherlands that created these fighters. I think it's silly to propose Suriname in the top 5. Good fighters of Surinamese descent, sure. Same for Morocco.
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The Surinamese blood is so strong that it produces the best fighters
 
Seso said:
Yes he trained in Belgium or Netherlands and? Doesn't change the fact that he is literally a immigrant because he wasn't born in Belgium and I only see him with the armenian flag anyways. I could understand your point If he was born in belgium
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My point is that he's a Dutch trained fighter, hence why it's silly not to count him as Dutch. It would be like saying Alistair Overeem is not a Dutch fighter, he's a British fighter because he was born in the UK, or Israel Adesanya is a Nigerian fighter not a Kiwi fighter because he was born in Nigeria.
 
Tayski said:
My point is that he's a Dutch trained fighter, hence why it's silly not to count him as Dutch. It would be like saying Alistair Overeem is not a Dutch fighter, he's a British fighter because he was born in the UK, or Israel Adesanya is a Nigerian fighter not a Kiwi fighter because he was born in Nigeria.
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I'm not aware of any brazilian that was at a high level before going to Thailand.

Most people probably don't consider Grigorian is not #1 anyway, regardless if he is a Dutch or Belgian kickboxer. But it's different from the Surinamese guys who have had strong ties to the netherlands since they were born.

What about Kyshenko? Is he Dutch/Spanish according to the same logic?
 
Kanka said:
I'm not aware of any brazilian that was at a high level before going to Thailand.

Most people probably don't consider Grigorian is not #1 anyway, regardless if he is a Dutch or Belgian kickboxer.

What about Kyshenko? Is he Dutch according to the same logic?
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High level or not, at least you have a case if they started training in their native countries. It's different with Kyshenko and Adamchuk since they both grew up and trained in Ukraine before moving to the Netherlands.

I can't be assed arguing back and forth over the same thing and I said from the start in my first response, you might not consider Grigorian as #1 and would probably say it's Sittichai instead and might possibly want to count him as Armenian not Dutch. My initial response to you literally was "Marat Grigorian, unless you want to count him as Armenina, but he's basically a Dutch trained fighter. But then of course you can also say that Sittichai got that #1 spot."
 
Tayski said:
High level or not, at least you have a case if they started training in their native countries. It's different with Kyshenko and Adamchuk since they both grew up and trained in Ukraine before moving to the Netherlands.

I can't be assed arguing back and forth over the same thing and I said from the start in my first response, you might not consider Grigorian as #1 and would probably say it's Sittichai instead and might possibly want to count him as Armenian not Dutch. My initial response to you literally was "Marat Grigorian, unless you want to count him as Armenina, but he's basically a Dutch trained fighter. But then of course you can also say that Sittichai got that #1 spot."
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Yea but the discussion wasn't about Armenia so not sure why you always bring that into the discussion.

So basically the conclusion is, the only Dutch fighter that is #1 in their weight class is Verhoeven, and then possibly Marat Grigorian who is Belgian, but dutch trained.
 
Kanka said:
Yea but the discussion wasn't about Armenia so not sure why you always bring that into the discussion.

So basically the conclusion is, the only Dutch fighter that is #1 in their weight class is Verhoeven, and then possibly Marat Grigorian who is Belgian, but dutch trained.
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I gave you an example of another Dutch fighter that you might consider at the top other than Rico, even though he fights under the Armenian flag and resides in Belgium, that's why I mentioned you might consider him as Armenian. I haven't mentioned Armenia for any other purpose.
 
Bang Rachan said:
The Surinamese blood is so strong that it produces the best fighters
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How does that work? I think it has more to do with the fact that many Surinamese migrated to Holland, the Kickboxing capital of the world. That's the connection, the same connection shared by all of the native Dutchmen who were extremely successful as well.
 
Snubnoze707 said:
How does that work? I think it has more to do with the fact that many Surinamese migrated to Holland, the Kickboxing capital of the world. That's the connection, the same connection shared by all of the native Dutchmen who were extremely successful as well.
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In western europe, it's an immigrant/lower income sport to some extent
 
Kanka said:
In western europe, it's an immigrant/lower income sport to some extent
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I'd say it's the case in most of the world, most fighters for instance from America or Thailand are usually from working class / lower income backgrounds and within those you usually have a lot immigrants and children of immigrants especially in the Western countries, with of course some exceptions. If you look at Boxing and MMA fighters in USA, they're usually from working class / lower income backgrounds and that's why there's so many black athletes in those sports. And if you look at Asia, fighters in Thailand, Myanmar, China, etc. are also usually from working class / lower income populations.

Combat sports tend to be a poor man's sport, especially as a profession, and then if you look at more "tradtional martial arts" which aren't strictly combat sports, like Karate, Judo, Tae Kwon Do etc. then you start to see more middle class people.
 
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Bang Rachan said:
The Surinamese blood is so strong that it produces the best fighters
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They are beautiful people like some islanders (they are on the coast, Curaçao for example is an island even though I find the Curacaons a little bit more different), and honestly all the African people are more gifted physicially. Each race is different, has qualities and defects. I get along with Suriname guys, more than with the Dutchmen. The Dutchmen are very compatible with my people but some oldies are racist and not very well mannered (proud, but proud by superiority like they invented the wheel). Even though I shouldn"t judge the third class or people with bad background, but I rarely didn"t get along with a Surinamese.

Vegeta said:
1: The Netherlands
2: The rest
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The Netherlands has this fantastic school behind, achieved in decades, but it"s visible even from there the sport is changing. I am talking with many Dutch fellows. They are aware of competition.
 
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Snubnoze707 said:
How does that work? I think it has more to do with the fact that many Surinamese migrated to Holland, the Kickboxing capital of the world. That's the connection, the same connection shared by all of the native Dutchmen who were extremely successful as well.
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It works because the Surinamese blood is in their vains
 
Bang Rachan said:
If they identify as Surinamese they’re Surinamese.
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Cool. They are ethnically, but they are good at Kickboxing because they moved to or where born in The Netherlands. Just like all of the non-Surinamese fighters from The Netherlands that are also incredibly successful.
 
Snubnoze707 said:
Cool. They are ethnically, but they are good at Kickboxing because they moved to or where born in The Netherlands. Just like all of the non-Surinamese fighters from The Netherlands that are also incredibly successful.
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Well, not all the Africans are good at sport. But I guess if we move some Nigerians and even Congolese to the Netherlands, they would also do well. Anyway, the Surinamese are more quiet than some other immigrants. Without discipline and good extra (sport) life you"re nothing.
 
Snubnoze707 said:
Cool. They are ethnically, but they are good at Kickboxing because they moved to or where born in The Netherlands. Just like all of the non-Surinamese fighters from The Netherlands that are also incredibly successful.
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They are good because they train with Surinamese
 
Snubnoze707 said:
Cool. They are ethnically, but they are good at Kickboxing because they moved to or where born in The Netherlands. Just like all of the non-Surinamese fighters from The Netherlands that are also incredibly successful.
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Please stop trolling and stay on topic
 
Does Lucien Carbin have a Surinamese background?
 
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