As most fighters scored the fight for Gus

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by georgwilhelm**, Sep 24, 2013.

  1. georgwilhelm**

    georgwilhelm** Banned Banned

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    is it because JBJ is as "unpopular" with fighters as he is with many fans? Or is it not a fact that fighters actually understand fighting better than internet reporters?
     
  2. SuBB

    SuBB Green Belt

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    they wanted titos record diminished so dana payed the judges to favour jj,, thats my 2 bobs worth
     
  3. morohbj

    morohbj Orange Belt

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    How dare you question the competence/bias of MMA media.
    It's obvious that these fighters have been hit too many times in the head and don't know what they are talking about!
     
  4. Cowb

    Cowb Orange Belt

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    Again - self selection bias.

    Fighters who thought the judges were wrong are more likely to tweet about it than fighters who thought Jones got the win.
     
  5. Ughugh

    Ughugh Banned Banned

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    It's probably because they think more like fighters than judges and tends to score the flow of the fight and strikes that hurts rather than scoring the strikes that... well, scores. We saw the same reaction in Diaz/Condit when Condit scored all those leg kicks that he didn't commit to.

    It's difficult to say whether they are better or worse. I mean, mma is a sport and scoring points is part of that sport. If the judges took perceived damage into consideration more than they already do it would be even more subjective than it is now. Both Diaz and Alex had the option to take the scoring into consideration but didn't and subsequently lost to the smarter fighters.
     
  6. FedorStMcGregor**

    FedorStMcGregor** Blue Belt

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    so it's UFC fans and fighters vs 3 judges and MMA media outlets with their hand in UFC's pocket

    I wonder who's right
     
  7. J180

    J180 Brown Belt

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    Fighters can be wrong, some of them proved that by acting like it was a robbery. When its not to anyone not being biased. It was a close fight, with the second round being the deciding factor in most peoples cards.
     
  8. Sirwastealot

    Sirwastealot Red Belt

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    As it should be. I agree with what you say. But i definitely score one hard straight right that snaps your head back more than 5 tap jabs or leg kicks.
     
  9. SnitchInsider

    SnitchInsider Brown Belt

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    Understanding fighting =/= understanding how to judge without bias.

    Fighters are the least reliable source for unbiased scores on fights. Everyone has ties to everyone with camps, friendships and rivalries. Not to mention scoring philosophies that have ties to their own in-octagon performances. It's the same reason why you don't poll NFL players to find out who belongs in the Hall of Fame -- it's largely the media's job to determine those things. The same goes for pretty much every other major sport.

    That isn't to say the media doesn't form relationships -- in fact it's an integral part of being a good journalist to do that -- but it's a work relationship first and foremost.

    The media also follows the sport more closely than most professional athletes do in their respective sports. Anyone with any experience in the media or in professional sports can attest to that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2013
  10. The DanaWhite

    The DanaWhite Purple Belt

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    Yea the fighters are the most biased guys period. Even on analysts like ufc tonight. Dom Cruz always saying the alliance.guys will win and chael supports wrestlers every time.
     
  11. Dart Feld

    Dart Feld Steel Belt

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    Fighters' opinions may have more stock than the average fan but how much?

    Many fighters disagree with how scoring criteria is set up and will score it on their own criteria. Their ability to predict fights have been poor using the pro picks that we've had over the years where the majority fighter opinion has rarely been the correct one. When their viewing a fight in their free time, esp. a fight they're really into, they're more or less in a fan's POV.

    It's always nice to hear their perspective but personally I only have a few fighters whose opinions on fights I really put stock into tbh. Guys like Mir(except on Torres fights...), Cruz, Stann, Chael(out of character), Machida, Bonnar, among others.

    As for how fighters were split on Jones/Gus, Gus did have the maority with two thirds. If you put more stock in that then that's cool. It would have been cool to see those fighters actually say what rounds they gave to Gus. Most that scored it for Jones gave a rounds breakdown. Pretty much all of the media had detailed play by plays as well. It's easier for me to consider/be swayed when the other side actually go into detail on their view rather than screaming robbery/bad judging(which quite a few fighters did).
     
  12. ocarey2

    ocarey2 Green Belt

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    In terms of judging most fighters don't know all that well. They're own careers require so much time and attention they don't have time to watch many of the fights, except those of the guys they have to fight and when they watch that they are focusing on the strengths and weaknesses of their potential opponent, not whether or not they are winning the fight. Furthermore they aren't meant to have to worry about whether or not they are winning a fight. It is usually the corners job to keep tabs on how the fight is going and give appropriate instruction.

    I think a lot of fighters would freely admit they might not have been the most impartial of judges either. Many of them will empathise with the underdog, as do many of us and score the bout based on exceeding expectations, while maybe not necessarily winning. Frankie Edgar vs BJ Penn 1 is a good example of judges being stricken by this phenomenon. Add to that the fact that Jones is extremely unpopular and I can see why many would have scored the fight against him. Since the rounds were so close, particularly 2, it is easy to just lean towards your favourite fighter, or in this case lean away from your most disliked fighter.

    Fact of the matter is fighters spend a lot less time analysing fights than MMA journalists do so it stands to reason that fighters are better at their job, fighting, while MMA journalists are better at their job, analysing fighting
     
  13. Bubson Bubba

    Bubson Bubba Purple Belt

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    Bubba still thinks it was Gus' fight. American Media says it JJ's. Fighters say its Gus'.

    Bubba will just go with himself.
     
  14. TDS2010

    TDS2010 White Belt

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    Im going to guess that the champs from each division felt that Jones won, and the 2,3,4 guys thought Gus did. The fact is, and Gus said it after the fact, you have to completely dominate the champ or finish them to take the belt. For example Faber vs. Cruz 2. I only bring this up because Gus reminds me of Cruz with his circling etc.
     
  15. SocraticMethod

    SocraticMethod Kingmaker

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    It's certainly not a fact that fighters understand scoring a fight better than "internet reporters."
     
  16. Face Stab

    Face Stab Black Belt

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    Wrong.

    :icon_lol:

    The fighters who tweet, tweet about nearly everything. Especially when it comes to big fights like that.

    On the MMA Hour yesterday, Helwani asked all the fighters who came on what they thought. 4 voted for Gus, 2 for Jones. And Stone Cold also said Gus, so obviously that's the bottom line.
     
  17. Face Stab

    Face Stab Black Belt

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    Nope. Weidman said he felt Gus won. GSP chose Jones, but only with great hesitance since he said he felt Gus was winning until the elbow.
     
  18. TDS2010

    TDS2010 White Belt

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    Im going to guess that the champs from each division felt that Jones won, and the 2,3,4 guys thought Gus did. The fact is, and Gus said it after the fact, you have to completely dominate the champ or finish them to take the belt. For example Faber vs. Cruz 2. I only bring this up because Gus reminds me of Cruz with his circling etc.
     
  19. kpt018

    kpt018 Gold Belt

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    Really? So did every single fighter score the bout for Gus? No, ok then, so which fighters are more competent judges?
     
  20. SocraticMethod

    SocraticMethod Kingmaker

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    The ones that agree with TS. Duh.
     

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