As Khabib fan I gotta recognize that there is a little "unknown" factor in his upcoming fight.

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by migeru29, Aug 18, 2018.

  1. migeru29 Brown Belt

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    Which I don't believe is really that "unknown" but you never know... The fact of the matter is that the last time we saw a weakness in Conor's grappling was 3 years old (against Mendes). A much smaller fighter was able to take him down multiple times and cut him with ground and pound. We really don't know how much his grappling skills improved since then.

    I'm a conor "hater" but I'm an objective person and I know that many people will post the Diaz shoke gif but the reality is that that's a 50/50 evidence for me since Conor was wobbled and completely out of gas.
    He showed good TD defense against Alvarez. But Alvarez was already hurt and he's also not an elite grappler, he's is a very good wrestler but not elite.

    What that being said. I'm very optimistic about Khabib winning this fight due to the fact that I believe that Conor has not improve his grappling/wrestling that much; but again as much as I would like to deny this, I can't, is not impossible to improve and while I agree that you cannot improve that much in just a couple of years... You know that there is always "that guy" that is very talented and is capable of improving in such short time and completely out of the ordinary, can Conor be "that guy"? You never know, I don't think so but it could be that he's a incredible talented athlete.

    Most elite grapplers lose when the their opponents have sufficient grappling skills to defend take-downs and ground attacks. The great majority don't lose because they "got caught", yeah there are occasions but they are outliers. The majority lose because they either failed many TD's attempts and eventually they get "caught" and/or when they achieve the take downs they do minimum damage on the ground and spent a lot of energy, get tired and consequently they no longer have energy to achieve more take-downs.

    Ironically speaking. The way to beat Khabib would be with grappling as well and having better striking. For example ere is a little secret, I would terrified if Khabib fights Kevin Lee.
     
  2. Arm Barbarian Titanium Belt Platinum Member

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  3. Mysterio Banned Banned

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    There's unknown factors in every fight.

    How many gay threads are you going to start about your insecurities over a fight lol

    Listen, if Khabib loses his bandwagon will completely disappear overnight.

    If Conor loses, he'll get ronda'ed off the internet. Nothing any of us say beforehand will change that.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2018
  4. PopeUrbanII Banned Banned

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    The early signs of doubt has struck Khabib-fans. Conor by KO confirmed.
     
  5. Mysterio Banned Banned

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    As a fan of Conor, I am also starting to doubt him.

    You see how easy that was? All you really have to do is say "as a fan of _____" before every argument

    Khabib hulk smash confirmed.

    <seedat>
     
  6. Agreed. The Conor fight will show us how good Khabib really is
     
  7. joeyjoejoe Silver Belt

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    So you think Khabib has a grappling advantage? Shocking
     
  8. D'z Brown Belt

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    TS is actually a Conor-nuthugger trolling everyone.
    <seedat>
     
  9. HulkOnViagra Soldier Of Sinister

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    Yeah I’m not reading all of that playboy
     
  10. Dbreiden83080 Andle My Riddum

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    Dude it is 11:30 on Saturday

    I am way too drunk for this shit.
     
  11. Liquid Samurai Purple Belt

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    Why did I just read all of that In a Dagestani / Russian accent in my head?
     
  12. Sean Long Master black belt of Majitney fufu

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    If Conor sticks to his fight plan and Khabib sticks to his fight plan, odds are Khabib will win.

    If Khabib loses his mind and tries to stand with Conor, that would be a bad choice.

    Whether people want to admit it or not, Conor only has heavy hands to win the fight. Khabib has more ways to win if the fight ends up on the ground.

    BUT, we wont know until they actually fight.
     
  13. HadoukenHendo Blue Belt

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    The irony is absolutely astounding.
     
  14. NotoriousMillions 28-1

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    I'm a conor "hater" but I'm an objective person and I know that many people will post the Diaz shoke gif but the reality is that that's a 50/50 evidence for me since Conor was wobbled and completely out of gas.
    He showed good TD defense against Alvarez. But Alvarez was already hurt and he's also not an elite grappler, he's is a very good wrestler but not elite.

    What that being said. I'm very optimistic about Khabib winning this fight due to the fact that I believe that Conor has not improve his grappling/wrestling that much; but again as much as I would like to deny this, I can't, is not impossible to improve and while I agree that you cannot improve that much in just a couple of years... You know that there is always "that guy" that is very talented and is capable of improving in such short time and completely out of the ordinary, can Conor be "that guy"? You never know, I don't think so but it could be that he's a incredible talented athlete.

    Most elite grapplers lose when the their opponents have sufficient grappling skills to defend take-downs and ground attacks. The great majority don't lose because they "got caught", yeah there are occasions but they are outliers. The majority lose because they either failed many TD's attempts and eventually they get "caught" and/or when they achieve the take downs they do minimum damage on the ground and spent a lot of energy, get tired and consequently they no longer have energy to achieve more take-downs.

    Ironically speaking. The way to beat Khabib would be with grappling as well and having better striking. For example ere is a little secret, I would terrified if Khabib fights Kevin Lee.[/QUOTE]


    I don't think Conor's grappling was ever as bad as you or others think it was. There is ONE fight people can point to in his UFC career that shows there can even be a weakness. Chad who is not that much smaller than Conor despite numerous claims, is also one of the very best grapplers in MMA. He has the best double-leg which naturally counters Conor's style and skills. We've never seen Conor struggle with other types of take downs. TDD isn't this universal move people pretend it is. There is science to it on both the offensive and defensive side. One wrestler can and probably will give you more trouble than a different type of wrestler. Chad also landed 4/7 takedowns. That's fairly good, but roughly his average. More importantly though, Conor got up three of those times.

    And as you said, this was all three years ago. Conor has been primarily training grappling since then for most of those 3 years. It is without question he will be better. To what degree maybe up for question, but does it have to be much? I don't think so. But I think it will be. Why? Because the reality that a lot of people like to ignore is that Conor has not been training grappling very long. It's virtually unheard of for a top-level fighter to not come up with an extended grappling background. For a guy to only have trained for 7 years, and probably not at his focal point and win a belt against such high level guys proves that he's not the lost cause people think he is. He's a very good athlete, smart, and dedicated fighter - and his time on the mat will have nearly doubled.

    And we still havn't even gotten to the fact Conor didn't really prepare wrestling for that fight because of a knee injury. Yes we can argue Chad suffered because of the short-notice fight as well, but he was training for some period of time before the call was even made, and I will hold by the fact that when a guy has a weapon that he can use against you effectively as Chad does with his double-leg, not giving him time to prepare against it will be advantageous. And we've seen this theory work in practically every short notice fight. Less talented fighters that might be able to counter a guy with their skill-set virtually always win on short-notice.

    We can also make the same arguments with his cardio. Yes it looked bad against Nate Diaz and Floyd Mayweather, but do I need to explain why? He obviously doesn't have many examples to go off of, but has he ever looked worse than the other guy outside of those two fights? And didn't Khabib look tired as hell himself in his first five round fight? I'm not saying Conor's cardio is better than Khabib's, or that if Khabib lays on him for rounds upon rounds that Conor won't get really tired, but there is an idea that Khabib runs circles around Conor and I don't see it. I think like many things involving Conor, it's hyper-generalization.

    Ultimately, the closer this fight gets, I get even more comfortable knowing the things I know. Obviously Khabib is dangerous for anyone, because I do believe he is a P4P top guy and would be an undefeated champion for at least a while if Conor didn't come back - but I'm still confident as can be. I only think there is one person that poses a threat to Conor, and I will admit it hasn't been that way from the beginning because I used to look at a Khabib Conor match-up the same way most people are doing now - through a very narrow lense.

    When looking at it objectively though, Kevin Lee is the only real risk, but a very real risk to Conor at LW. However, in the same regard I don't feel he is a risk to Khabib. We may ultimately see a BW situation of people exchanging wins at LW.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2018
  15. Liquid Samurai Purple Belt

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    I don't think Conor's grappling was ever as bad as you or others think it was. There is ONE fight people can point to in his UFC career that shows there can even be a weakness. Chad who is not that much smaller than Conor despite numerous claims, is also one of the very best grapplers in MMA. He has the best double-leg which naturally counters Conor's style and skills. We've never seen Conor struggle with other types of take downs. TDD isn't this universal move people pretend it is. There is science to it on both the offensive and defensive side. One wrestler can and probably will give you more trouble than a different type of wrestler. Chad also landed 4/7 takedowns. That's fairly good, but roughly his average. More importantly though, Conor got up three of those times.

    And as you said, this was all three years ago. Conor has been primarily training grappling since then for most of those 3 years. It is without question he will be better. To what degree maybe up for question, but does it have to be much? I don't think so. But I think it will be. Why? Because the reality that a lot of people like to ignore is that Conor has not been training grappling very long. It's virtually unheard of for a top-level fighter to not come up with an extended grappling background. For a guy to only have trained for 7 years, and probably not at his focal point and win a belt against such high level guys proves that he's not the lost cause people think he is. He's a very good athlete, smart, and dedicated fighter - and his time on the mat will have nearly doubled.

    And we still havn't even gotten to the fact Conor didn't really prepare wrestling for that fight because of a knee injury. Yes we can argue Chad suffered because of the short-notice fight as well, but he was training for some period of time before the call was even made, and I will hold by the fact that when a guy has a weapon that he can use against you effectively as Chad does with his double-leg, not giving him time to prepare against it will be advantageous. And we've seen this theory work in practically every short notice fight. Less talented fighters that might be able to counter a guy with their skill-set virtually always win on short-notice.

    I am also feeling more confident with each passing day. I went back and watched each and every Khabib fight several times over. The more I watched, (and muted rogans commentary) the more I realized he was far from this unbeatable russian killing machine he's made out to be. To add to that, when you put his opposition under a microscope, the less you come away with this feeling of utter dread for Conor the way his fans and Rogan would have you believe you should.
     
  16. NotoriousMillions 28-1

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    Like TJ said, he's very slow. He's obviously very technically sound in terms of grappling (but not everywhere), because he has to be to be remotely effective, but that lack of athleticism is going to catch up to him. His lack of striking skill is going to catch up with him. Someone like Conor that can frame and take away and get angles is going to naturally pose a big problem for a guy like Khabib who not only had these bad entries but can be very careless and easily countered on them.
     
  17. CrimsonFan Gold Belt

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    All hes gotta do go avoid the Ronda treatment is not act like a bitch when he loses. I think hes got that
     

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