Arum's Big Three

[Divatologist]

Out of Arums top current champions how would you rank them and why?

WBC and WBO middleweight champion Kelly Pavlik

WBA Welterweight champion Miguel cotto

WBC super featherweight champion Manny Pacquiao (as well as the ring mag sf champ title)


I know he has some other good fighters such as david diaz kid D, humberto soto, JCJR, steven luevano (just to name a few).

He also has some very good up and comers as well but id like to stick to the big three for now.

 

[Seano]

Paacquiao, Cotto, Pavlik.

Based solely on the number of quality fighters the 3 fought.

 

[BobbyBrez]

Rank them how? Tallest? P4P? Most cut? Most marketable?

 

[Seano]

I think Pacquiao is reaching the end of his dominance. I bet he'll look like shit against Diaz.

 

[Divatologist]

I think Pacquiao is reaching the end of his dominance. I bet he'll look like shit against Diaz.

I hate to say it but I think youre right. He doesnt have it in him like he once did. Cutting imo has been his downfall lately. I think he will make a few more successful defenses before he enters the twilight of his career.

 

[5acrossYOeye]

I hate to say it but I think youre right. He doesnt have it in him like he once did. Cutting imo has been his downfall lately. I think he will make a few more successful defenses before he enters the twilight of his career.

nevermind weight class...

 

[Sinister]

Marketability:

Pac
Cotto
Pavlik

Skill:

Cotto
Pac
Pavlik

Current dominance/performance:

Pac
Cotto
Pavlik

Future:

Cotto
Pavlik
Pac

And here's why:

Pac MIGHT be on the slide, but honestly going nearly even with another P4P Fighter, neither Cotto nor Pavlik has done that, nor does either have Pac's strength of resume. Also, Pac might NOT look like shit against Diaz, we don't know yet. Ancient Morales didn't look like shit against Diaz, assuming Pac definitely would is a bit much, and a lot of people are doing that.

Pac's marketing trumps even Cotto's right now. He's a King of an International Market, and is beloved in most of the big big Boxing communities. Cotto is getting there, but I wouldn't put him ahead of Pac just yet, we'll see what the draw is like for Cotto in Vegas, and we'll see if nearly every Puerto Rican dignitary flies in to see him fight, and if fortifies a whole other level of International Fight fans, and Fighters.

There's a generation of kids in the Philippines who all want to Box now, because of Manny, and there's a generation of Mexicans who want to kick those kids' asses.

Cotto is definitely vastly skilled, even moreso than Manny and Kelly IMO. He's shown there's not much he can't do in the ring that isn't limited by genetics.

It was tough to choose who has the brighter Future, because Cotto is in the most deep division of the 3. There's chances he MIGHT lose at some point whereas who is going to beat Kelly if he stays at MW? He could have a long healthy reign if he doesn't jump up too soon, and if he does he runs into a crop of dangerous SMW's. But for right now Cotto's only gotten better, Pac MIGHT be on the slide, and Kelly struggled a bit with a more determined Taylor. Most-likely to evolve further is Cotto.

 

[Divatologist]

Marketability:

Pac
Cotto
Pavlik

Skill:

Cotto
Pac
Pavlik

Current dominance/performance:

Pac
Cotto
Pavlik

Future:

Cotto
Pavlik
Pac

And here's why:

Pac MIGHT be on the slide, but honestly going nearly even with another P4P Fighter, neither Cotto nor Pavlik has done that, nor does either have Pac's strength of resume. Also, Pac might NOT look like shit against Diaz, we don't know yet. Ancient Morales didn't look like shit against Diaz, assuming Pac definitely would is a bit much, and a lot of people are doing that.

Pac's marketing trumps even Cotto's right now. He's a King of an International Market, and is beloved in most of the big big Boxing communities. Cotto is getting there, but I wouldn't put him ahead of Pac just yet, we'll see what the draw is like for Cotto in Vegas, and we'll see if nearly every Puerto Rican dignitary flies in to see him fight, and if fortifies a whole other level of International Fight fans, and Fighters.

There's a generation of kids in the Philippines who all want to Box now, because of Manny, and there's a generation of Mexicans who want to kick those kids' asses.

Cotto is definitely vastly skilled, even moreso than Manny and Kelly IMO. He's shown there's not much he can't do in the ring that isn't limited by genetics.

It was tough to choose who has the brighter Future, because Cotto is in the most deep division of the 3. There's chances he MIGHT lose at some point whereas who is going to beat Kelly if he stays at MW? He could have a long healthy reign if he doesn't jump up too soon, and if he does he runs into a crop of dangerous SMW's. But for right now Cotto's only gotten better, Pac MIGHT be on the slide, and Kelly struggled a bit with a more determined Taylor. Most-likely to evolve further is Cotto.

KK, those are definitely some reasonable rankings with very rational explanations behind them. I do however disagree a small bit with your opinion on marketability and skill.

With Cotto the marketability is definitely there but the PR's definitely don't embrace them the way they do trinidad. While I do think this will slowly but surely change I would put pavlik ahead of him and stick with pacquiao on top.

Believe or not Pavlik has a very strong following, so much so that people who don't have 750for floor seats to throw around fork it over anyways, he is a sign of hope to the regular american fan(usually white).
Hes only 26, and koed someone who was known for beating out great opponents, these opponents may have been on somewhat of a slide but were still at the top of their talented division. Taylor was still a highly touted and undefeated fighter at the time, I dont think anyone actually expected him to win, just like with the miranda fight, it wasnt his time but he took it anyways. We've only seen part of his arsenal. He also has a great chin. Id get in to even more details about him but it might get me into trouble.

You can't go anywhere in Ohio without hearing his name and if you stopped someone on the street to talk about him they would all have something positive to say.

Im really looking forward to the fight on june seventh.

As far as pacquiao goes I think he is definitely a the top of most of these lists, skill especially. Looking back at his battles with morales, barrera, and marquez it takes alot of physical and mental skill to rebound from close matches and make wide decisions or kos out of them the second and third time around (aside from the bouts with marquez which were both pretty close.).(Yes cotto beat Pinto after being defeated by him twice at the amateur level but he hasnt done this at the professional level which is much different imo.) Since he is moving up in weight to fight diaz I think we will see a much better pacquiao since he wont be so drained. Hes stated in multiple press confrences that cutting had been somewhat of a problem.

Not only do the filipinos go nuts for this guy and take up at least half the crowd at each fight but there are a suprsing number of mexicans rooting him on at fights. This was especially apparent at his last fight with marquez. Cant wait for the fight against Diaz....

 

[phool]

KK, those are definitely some reasonable rankings with very rational explanations behind them. I do however disagree a small bit with your opinion on marketability and skill.

With Cotto the marketability is definitely there but the PR's definitely don't embrace them the way they do trinidad. While I do think this will slowly but surely change I would put pavlik ahead of him and stick with pacquiao on top.

Believe or not Pavlik has a very strong following, so much so that people who don't have 750for floor seats to throw around fork it over anyways, he is a sign of hope to the regular american fan(usually white).
Hes only 26, and koed someone who was known for beating out great opponents, these opponents may have been on somewhat of a slide but were still at the top of their talented division. Taylor was still a highly touted and undefeated fighter at the time, I dont think anyone actually expected him to win, just like with the miranda fight, it wasnt his time but he took it anyways. We've only seen part of his arsenal. He also has a great chin. Id get in to even more details about him but it might get me into trouble.

You can't go anywhere in Ohio without hearing his name and if you stopped someone on the street to talk about him they would all have something positive to say.

Im really looking forward to the fight on june seventh.

As far as pacquiao goes I think he is definitely a the top of most of these lists, skill especially. Looking back at his battles with morales, barrera, and marquez it takes alot of physical and mental skill to rebound from close matches and make wide decisions or kos out of them the second and third time around (aside from the bouts with marquez which were both pretty close.).(Yes cotto beat Pinto after being defeated by him twice at the amateur level but he hasnt done this at the professional level which is much different imo.) Since he is moving up in weight to fight diaz I think we will see a much better pacquiao since he wont be so drained. Hes stated in multiple press confrences that cutting had been somewhat of a problem.

Not only do the filipinos go nuts for this guy and take up at least half the crowd at each fight but there are a suprsing number of mexicans rooting him on at fights. This was especially apparent at his last fight with marquez. Cant wait for the fight against Diaz....

wow..bang on... King Kabuki and Divatologist.... mad props

I had those three broken down into the same ranks.

 

[the general]

I think Pacquiao is reaching the end of his dominance. I bet he'll look like shit against Diaz.

your outta your mind

 

[Sinister]

You can't go anywhere in Ohio without hearing his name and if you stopped someone on the street to talk about him they would all have something positive to say.

Well I'm not discrediting Pavlik's following, but the problem is so much of Ohio is not very economically viable. It's a strong market in-terms of loyalty, but can they fly anywhere to see him Fight? Will they travel overseas? Can he sell out a place like the Garden, or make $5 million fighting a guy who isn't a name like Pac has done?

I think the potential might be there once he catches on across America, but it has yet to be seen.

As far as pacquiao goes I think he is definitely a the top of most of these lists, skill especially. Looking back at his battles with morales, barrera, and marquez it takes alot of physical and mental skill to rebound from close matches and make wide decisions or kos out of them the second and third time around (aside from the bouts with marquez which were both pretty close.).(Yes cotto beat Pinto after being defeated by him twice at the amateur level but he hasnt done this at the professional level which is much different imo.) Since he is moving up in weight to fight diaz I think we will see a much better pacquiao since he wont be so drained. Hes stated in multiple press confrences that cutting had been somewhat of a problem.

Very reasonable, though I still think Cotto Boxes better than Pacquiao when he has to Box. More fundamental. Not that he's done that against the same kinds of guys Pac has utilized his skill against, but that it's there and been there longer. Cotto was a pretty brilliant Boxer in the Amateurs, not primarily a slugger.

But yes, out-boxing Barrera and going step-for-step with Marquez is nothing to sneer at.

 

[bostonmma]

I think Pavlick is going to get a big big push. Remember he is a mid-american white guy with a lot of power. They will feed him some easy title defenses this year that will really increase his exposure.

 

[lukeviacoolhand]

I think Pavlick is going to get a big big push. Remember he is a mid-american white guy with a lot of power. They will feed him some easy title defenses this year that will really increase his exposure.

I like Pavlik from a marketability standpoint as well. He has that whole "great white hope" thing going for him.

 

[GlassJaw]

I like this thread. Let's also not forget the possiblity of JJC Jr. or Margarito (see what i did there?)joining these lists. Unlike the good people of Youngstown, the Mexican market is deathly loyal, expansive and willing to travel to catch shows. (which is probably one of their strongest points)

Fighters "catch fire" with the Mexican people so to speak. It only truly takes that one defining fight to spark the obsession of a entire nation. Also, they normally have one solid standout of the bunch they favor, and at present, they have multiple interests but no true "el champion".

 

[GlassJaw]

Also wanted to add that Manny is as popular to the Mexican fight community as any Hispanic fighter. That says alot.

 

[mschatz]

your outta your mind

Phillipino?