Arum says Lomachenko vs Walters is done, pending broadcast deal.

[JayElectra]

Yeah, I agree. And to me, that could easily be a description of the Bradley vs Chaves fight.

In some ways, although I think the Bradley/Chaves fight was a lot closer. Bradley seemed bored and lazy in that fight and Chaves himself is fairly underrated.

 

[SouthpawSlugger]

I agree with Seano's points here, but I definitely still have interest in this fight happening. Should end up on HBO not sure what dick Arum is sucking nowadays but I don't see how he would have to shop to HBO fighters to other networks unless he's bluffing on the fight actually being made.

Seano has no points only falsehood, he's a clown.

They tried to make this fight last year. Walters missed weight so Lomachenko said he didn't want to go up in weight. One year later, Walters looks mediocre and Lomachenko now is ready to go up and weight and make the fight. What are you not getting here? He didn't take the fight (turned it down in fact) when Walters looked good. Two mediocre performances laters and here we are talking about how the fight has been made.

We agreed that Walters has NOT been as impressive in his last two. I'm not even sure what argument you think you're making.

Lomachenko was the one calling out Walters after the GRJ win for unification and it was Walters who pulled a diva Flomo move and said Vasyl wasn't a big enough name to fight him. He then made himself look like a joke by missing weight and getting stripped while Vasyl was trying to get a unification fights.

The fight getting made now is due to the reality that GRJ, Selby, LSC aren't going anywhere near him and like Cuban pointed out Arum's more marketable FW Valdez is Lomachenko's mandatory. He has nowhere to go at 126 and evidently Walters doesn't think he's too big of a superstar anymore.

 

[JayElectra]

it's the same, the fighters are the same, that's all that matters. If you're less invested in the fight because one fighter has a robbery of a draw on his record, that's your fault. I said there are no differences, because the only thing that would make this fight different is if one fighter clearly declined, which neither of them have. If anything, Walters has only proven himself more and looks like a bigger threat, because he proved he can beat good SFWs, which Loma has not.

It's funny though, I'm the sensitive one, but I don't think I've ever resorted to using the word cunt. (is that not autocensored now?)

Walters has beaten one SFW and he didn't have much of a reputation before facing Walters (although I'd argue he looked half decent). Walters' reputation hasn't gotten any better since he KO'd Donaire, in fact, it's probably taken a bit of a hit (nothing too substantial, though). Seano seems to be saying that the reason TR/Loma are now pursuing that fight is because Walters has not looked like the same killer since beating down Donaire. I don't really agree, although, I can see that being a popular read of the situation if other fighters were involved. To me it seems this fight is getting made more or less because there are no other profitable options for Lomachenko and HBO doesn't want to buy any more Lomachenko fights with no-name no-hopers.

 

[ironfist05]

Walters has beaten one SFW and he didn't have much of a reputation before facing Walters (although I'd argue he looked half decent). Walters' reputation hasn't gotten any better since he KO'd Donaire, in fact, it's probably taken a bit of a hit (nothing too substantial, though). Seano seems to be saying that the reason TR/Loma are now pursuing that fight is because Walters has not looked like the same killer since beating down Donaire. I don't really agree, although, I can see that being a popular read of the situation if other fighters were involved. To me it seems this fight is getting made more or less because there are no other profitable options for Lomachenko and HBO doesn't want to buy any more Lomachenko fights with no-name no-hopers.

I know what Seano is arguing on the surface. I don't disagree with what he's saying on the surface either. It's true: Walters hasn't been giving us sensational KOs like he did against a shot Vic and an undersized Donaire. It's not what Seano is saying that I have a problem with, it's what he's implying: that Loma was ducking Walters this whole time and is trying to pick off a past prime Walters. Because that's obviously not true at all, Walters is still the same Walters we saw against Vic and Nonito and pretty much everybody acknowledges that. His "reputation" (IE: how marketable he is as a "big punching destroyer") may have declined a little, but as a fighter, he hasn't declined at all and that's all that's important. Walters is every bit the threat he was a year ago, maybe even more of one, since he's not killing himself to make weight anymore and has shown that he can take on bigger, better fighters. "Reputations" are for casuals, we're real fans, we see fighters in depth, not their "shallow" reputation based on if they KOd their last opponent or not.

I think Seano sees what he wants to see, and not what's actually there. He wants Loma to be a duck. I agree with your narrative that TR ran out of profitable options for Loma and now they're trying to cash him in in the biggest fight possible, and TBH, I don't think he wins this one.

to summarize (because I tend to get long winded): I acknowledge that Walters has not looked as devastating as he did against Vic and Donaire. So does Seano. Where we differ is that Seano is pretending (in a very passive-aggressive, hissy manner) that this means that Walters has made some massive decline and that Loma is only trying to fight Walters because Walters is now-past prime. I hold that Walters is the same fighter he has always been, he's just now facing bigger, less shot opponents, so in the end, Walters is as big a threat to Loma as he has ever been, maybe even more so. Thus, as much as Seano wishes that Loma were afraid of Walters, Loma is not afraid of Walters and never was because he's taking on the same Walters we saw a year ago in what is easily one of the best fights you can make at SFW.

 

[JayElectra]

^There might also be something in Lomachenko wanting to move up as his body matures. He fought as high as 135 in the amateurs and (although I forget how much he was listed at in his last fight in the ring) he has been rehydrating to around 140 over his last few fights. His style is never going to be reliant on size advantage, so 130 makes sense on the face of it, especially if he has no one to fight at 126.

 

[ironfist05]

^There might also be something in Lomachenko wanting to move up as his body matures. He fought as high as 135 in the amateurs and (although I forget how much he was listed at in his last fight in the ring) he has been rehydrating to around 140 over his last few fights. His style is never going to be reliant on size advantage, so 130 makes sense on the face of it, especially if he has no one to fight at 130.

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised by that at all. People talk about how big Walters is, but Loma is no small fry himself. Not only that, but SFW has a lot of marketable fights. He can have the salido rematch he's been calling for. Francisco Vargas (or as I like to call him, Mexican Meldrick) is with DLH, and is a good opponent with a title. Of course, there's Uchi, arguably one of the top ten P4P fighters in the world, that would be huge as a win. SFW is just a greener pasture at an easier weight for Loma, it makes all the sense in the world. Other than Rigo, LSC (which is basically just a money match IMO) and maaaybe a rematch with GRJ, there's basically nothing for Loma at 126.

 

[JayElectra]

Selby is a good FW, as well, but that fight doesn't seem very likely considering he's with Haymon.

 

[ironfist05]

Selby is a good FW, as well, but that fight doesn't seem very likely considering he's with Haymon.

true, I didn't mean to say that FW is bereft of talent, rather that SFW is as rich in talent and names, if not more so, and comes with less of a weight cut.

 

[Seano]

I know what Seano is arguing on the surface. I don't disagree with what he's saying on the surface either. It's true: Walters hasn't been giving us sensational KOs like he did against a shot Vic and an undersized Donaire. It's not what Seano is saying that I have a problem with, it's what he's implying: that Loma was ducking Walters this whole time and is trying to pick off a past prime Walters. Because that's obviously not true at all, Walters is still the same Walters we saw against Vic and Nonito and pretty much everybody acknowledges that. His "reputation" (IE: how marketable he is as a "big punching destroyer") may have declined a little, but as a fighter, he hasn't declined at all and that's all that's important. Walters is every bit the threat he was a year ago, maybe even more of one, since he's not killing himself to make weight anymore and has shown that he can take on bigger, better fighters. "Reputations" are for casuals, we're real fans, we see fighters in depth, not their "shallow" reputation based on if they KOd their last opponent or not.

I think Seano sees what he wants to see, and not what's actually there. He wants Loma to be a duck. I agree with your narrative that TR ran out of profitable options for Loma and now they're trying to cash him in in the biggest fight possible, and TBH, I don't think he wins this one.
.

How much more time are you going to spend talking about me? Look, stop playing dumb. A year and a half ago, people would have been split on who'd win if Lomachenko and Walters fought. When Walters was knocking the shit out of recognizable names, thats when the fight should have been made.

Whether or not you agree with the decision in Walter's last fight or not, he looked unspectacular against a guy that most fans would view as lesser than guys he KO'd. He looked flat against Marriaga too and missed weight.

How could anyone say that the fight is just as good now when one guy has looked lesser in his last two?

No one is picking Walters to beat Lomachenko now. It was a bigger fight a year ago. No doubt about it. These guys aren't Pac and Floyd.

 

[Seano]

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised by that at all. People talk about how big Walters is, but Loma is no small fry himself. Not only that, but SFW has a lot of marketable fights. He can have the salido rematch he's been calling for. Francisco Vargas (or as I like to call him, Mexican Meldrick) is with DLH, and is a good opponent with a title. Of course, there's Uchi, arguably one of the top ten P4P fighters in the world, that would be huge as a win. SFW is just a greener pasture at an easier weight for Loma, it makes all the sense in the world. Other than Rigo, LSC (which is basically just a money match IMO) and maaaybe a rematch with GRJ, there's basically nothing for Loma at 126.

Actually, Lomachenko has always said he wanted to fight the champs at FW, thats why they didn't put the Walters fight together a year ago. I don't think he's fought one so far though aside from Salido. They also said that guys at Super feather were too big for them, they mentioned Walters by name, saying he comes in at 147.

You're just making things up that sound best for Lomachenko.

 

[nac386]

In some ways, although I think the Bradley/Chaves fight was a lot closer. Bradley seemed bored and lazy in that fight and Chaves himself is fairly underrated.

I agree. I just mean the fights resembled each other, in that the more talented fighter seemed to choose a stylistic approach that gave his opponent the only chance he had. Chaves is underrated. He's the guy that I said Garcia should have fought instead of Guerrero. I think Garcia still wins, but it'd be more interesting.

 

[Seano]

Lomachenko was the one calling out Walters after the GRJ win for unification and it was Walters who pulled a diva Flomo move and said Vasyl wasn't a big enough name to fight him. He then made himself look like a joke by missing weight and getting stripped while Vasyl was trying to get a unification fights.

No, they turned down Walters, said he was unprofessional and had no interest in fighting him anymore. You're just making shit up and insulting me in passing to make it look like you know what you're talking about.

'Walters is not interesting for Lomachenko, as he lost his title on scale,” Egis Klimas, Lomachenko‘s manager, told RingTV.com. “He did not make weight. We are not interested [in] preparing for the bout and not knowing if opponent going to make weight and [then] going into ring with welterweight (On the night of the Marriaga fight Walters weighed in at the welterweight limit).”

And then there was this, which I alluded to earlier as well-

“[The] problem is Vasyl wants to fight only champions at 126 pounds and [there are] not many available to step in the ring with him.”

He didn't fight any of the champs at 126 and now the fight with Walters has been made after Walters had one mediocre showing. They did the exact opposite of everything they suggested. Don't pretend its not because Walters has looked lesser. It obviously is. Pretty obvious. I get that "Loma" is one of the hipster favorites about the boxing forums but it is what it is- they turned down Walters when he looked good and took the fight when he looked not so good. There's no argument here. These are facts.

 

[ironfist05]

How much more time are you going to spend talking about me? Look, stop playing dumb. A year and a half ago, people would have been split on who'd win if Lomachenko and Walters fought. When Walters was knocking the shit out of recognizable names, thats when the fight should have been made.

Nobody cares about you, get over yourself. I'm not playing dumb. People are still split on this fight. I favor Walters. Names don't matter. Sosa and Marriaga are definitely better than a shot to hell Vic. I'm not even sure I'd pick Nonito over those guys, given that he just went life and death with Ceja and looked like ass against Vic and Vetyeka. Only casuals give a shit about who got the last KO. Walters is the same Walters we've always known and he's still the same threat to Loma. Nothing has changed. He has not declined, no matter how much you wish he had.

Whether or not you agree with the decision in Walter's last fight or not, he looked unspectacular against a guy that most fans would view as lesser than guys he KO'd. He looked flat against Marriaga too and missed weight.

Wow, a guy looks slightly less impressive after going up in weight and dominating opponents that aren't shot? SHOCKING. Never seen that before. This is the same Walters we've always seen. Nothing has changed about him. You know this too. I've asked you to outright say if you think Walters has declined as a fighter and each time you've just avoided the question. There was no chin-destroying war. No fight where he looked considerably slower, or like he's declined technically. He's faced bigger guys who can handle his power, that's all. This is what you say would happen to Golovkin if he goes to SMW. Except, Golovkin would still be the same Golovkin, he'd just be facing bigger guys.

How could anyone say that the fight is just as good now when one guy has looked lesser in his last two?

because those two guys he faced were bigger and arguably better than his last two opponents, and most fighters have worse performances against bigger guys. Nothing about Walters has changed. He is still the same Walters and the same threat to Loma. If you think he's less of a threat to Loma, say so. Except you would have already if you actually believed that, so obviously you don't.

No one is picking Walters to beat Lomachenko now. It was a bigger fight a year ago. No doubt about it. These guys aren't Pac and Floyd.

Plenty of people will be picking Walters, including myself. It was a bigger fight a year ago because the fighters were more marketable at that point. Loma has taken something of a brief bum tour and Walters has missed weight and faced less famous names. But marketability doesn't affect fighting ability. These guys are still very much dead prime and have not declined whatsoever.

you're bringing nothing to this argument whatsoever. The point isn't that Walters looked lesser, it's that Walters is unchanged as a threat to Loma. Loma is facing the same destroyer he was set to face a year ago.

 

[ironfist05]

Actually, Lomachenko has always said he wanted to fight the champs at FW, thats why they didn't put the Walters fight together a year ago. I don't think he's fought one so far though aside from Salido. They also said that guys at Super feather were too big for them, they mentioned Walters by name, saying he comes in at 147.

You're just making things up that sound best for Lomachenko.

Well, now he's chasing Walters. Times change, get over it. Loma was never avoiding Walters, he was posturing. If he still REALLY wanted to be FW champion, he could easily be at this point. Except he's going for the bigger challenge, which is Walters.

That's what you're missing. You're trying to see something that's not there. Loma isn't, and never was, afraid of Walters like you wish he was. If he were he wouldn't be facing Walters at all, because Walters is the same Walters from a year ago and everybody on this board (except for you) seems to acknowledge that.

 

[The Can Opener]

Apparently HBO isn't really interested in the fight and that's why showtime is an actual possibility now.



"Hall of Fame promoter Bob Arum told reporters in New York City that a clash between WBO featherweight champion Vasyl Lomachenko (5-1, 3 KOs) and former champion Nicholas “Axeman” Walters (26-0-1, 21 KOs) is in the works for April 30. Surprisingly, new HBO boxing chief Peter Nelson apparently isn’t too enamored with the fight, and there is talk of Top Rank bringing the fight to rival network Showtime. Showtime boss Stephen Espinoza stated via Twitter “We’ve always been open to all promoters,” but he added that as of yet the fight hasn’t been proposed (at least officially).

It was noteworthy that when closing Thursday’s Crawford-Lundy HBO press conference, Arum mentioned on the dais about how 30 years ago one of his fights, Hagler-Mugabi, launched boxing on Showtime. Nelson, sitting on stage about six feet away, maintained a poker face but the message was received loud and clear. However this plays out, the network that lands Lomachenko-Walters will be getting a terrific fight."

http://www.fightnews.com/Boxing/lomachenko-walters-in-the-works-326362

 

[Akimbo Slice]

Apparently HBO isn't really interested in the fight

That is bullshit, HBO would gag on bob's wrinkled nuts to show that fight, especially given they don't have many great fights planned until later in the year...bob's selling wolf tickets.

 

[The Can Opener]

That is bullshit, HBO would gag on bob's wrinkled nuts to show that fight, especially given they don't have many great fights planned until later in the year...bob's selling wolf tickets.

That's what I figured too but apparently Arum went to them asking for a fight date and they didn't offer him one. Two sources contacted HBO to ask about the fight and HBO declined comment both times. So maybe they don't want to pay what Arum is asking?

 

[Akimbo Slice]

So maybe they don't want to pay what Arum is asking?

That's the long and the short of it as my guess...seems odd given the longstanding relationship between TR and HBO

 

[Seano]

Seano has no points only falsehood, he's a clown.



Lomachenko was the one calling out Walters after the GRJ win for unification and it was Walters who pulled a diva Flomo move and said Vasyl wasn't a big enough name to fight him. He then made himself look like a joke by missing weight and getting stripped while Vasyl was trying to get a unification fights.

The fight getting made now is due to the reality that GRJ, Selby, LSC aren't going anywhere near him and like Cuban pointed out Arum's more marketable FW Valdez is Lomachenko's mandatory. He has nowhere to go at 126 and evidently Walters doesn't think he's too big of a superstar anymore.

No, Lomachenko and his team said no Walters because he missed weight and didn't have a title.I posted quotes from his team saying exactly that and you ignore them. They have made the fight because Walters looked beatable in his last 2 fights.

 

[Seano]

That is bullshit, HBO would gag on bob's wrinkled nuts to show that fight, especially given they don't have many great fights planned until later in the year...bob's selling wolf tickets.

Thats overstating it. Its a good fight for the hardcore fans. Not something thats going to set the world afire. No one outside of people who watch HBO know who Walters and Lomachenko are.