Article: Is BJJ dead?

[dokomoy]

In the Gi, there are a few warriors left. Guys like Galvao and Rodolfo who fight as hard as they can asserting their dominance through as sea of spinning inverters and gi magicians, whose faces would most certainly be mauled by baboons.

This was probably the dumbest thing in the entire article. Not only does he conflate choice of techniques with dominance(passing guard is good but berimbolo is bad) it ignores the fact that Andre is much more of a staller than Paulo "double guard and berimbolo" Miyao(also ignores how most of the guys who play all these "crazy guards" also have excellent passing)

 

[Balto]

This was probably the dumbest thing in the entire article. Not only does he conflate choice of techniques with dominance(passing guard is good but berimbolo is bad) it ignores the fact that Andre is much more of a staller than Paulo "double guard and berimbolo" Miyao(also ignores how most of the guys who play all these "crazy guards" also have excellent passing)

Also, baboons.

 

[Uchi Mata]

Irrelevant because its take on all challengers and almost always win, shine or lustre appears to have been dimmed by sport jiu jitsu. that's the perception anyway. in order for me to get exactly what I want from BJJ, I would need to join 2 clubs. unbelievable.

Yeah, well now we have MMA so the whole 'art vs art' discussion is almost entirely irrelevant. If you want to become the best fighter you can be, join an MMA gym. MMA as a distinct style has superseded any individual martial art. Why would you want to do MMA in pajamas with 4th rate striking when you can just go down the street and train with skilled wrestler/kick-boxers who also understand submissions and ground positioning (with strikes included)?

Helio mostly went around beating up Karate and Kung Fu guys. I'm pretty damn sure Keenan Cornelius could do the same if he wanted to. The bar is just higher now for actual combat. It's not 1993 anymore, stop trying to live in that world.

 

[Uchi Mata]

I understand the evolution of the sport, I understand that bjj could be practice for different things (mma, SD and sport) but for fuck sakes, keenans worm guard is too much for my taste...

Yeah, me too. Mostly because it doesn't seem to aim for a finish at any point. Say what you will about the berimbolo, but it's mostly a way to get to the back to finish as quickly as possible.

In general I don't like guards that are unpassable due to rules restrictions. 50/50 and some of the lapel based stuff definitely strikes me that way. It makes the sport more boring.

 

[dmwalking]

I feel like BJJ is alive and well. And just like many cultures that grow large, you develop sub cultures.


It's like Rock music. There are dozens of sub genres and you're free to enjoy them all, or only enjoy one. That's your choice. But whether it's metal or indie, it's all rock.

Just like BJJ. You have no gi, gi, self defense, sport, MMA relevant BJJ. In the end, it's all BJJ. It's just a matter of preference.

 

[Sexy Pants]

Agree a lot of BS without trying to finish or advancing the position.

 

[tap21]

IF BJJ keeps going in the same direction it is today then in a short time it will have the same relationship to grappling in actual fighting that kung fu has to striking in actual fighting.

 

[LoRezzz]

I understand the evolution of the sport, I understand that bjj could be practice for different things (mma, SD and sport) but for fuck sakes, keenans worm guard is too much for my taste...

This is my thought too. I respect the creativity, innovation, and hard work the athletes put into it all, and I'm sure it wins medals... but sometimes, it is too much.

 

[dalexan242]

In a street fight of Rickson vs. a baboon, I'm probably going to go with the baboon.

 

[JustSomeGuy]

Why do people say Carlos Gracie is the father of BJJ when what he taught his brothers was straight Judo!?!

I'm not sure it was straight Judo. Maeda seemed to have his own style a bit. What was Kano's Judo and what was brought in from outside seemed to be a little blurred around then.

It's clear at this point in time that BJJ and Judo are two different things. Maybe it wasn't so clear at first.

Also about sport BJJ, I think the same thing can be said about Judo. Apparently, pre-Olympics Judo (before 1964 I think) was a completely different thing. Then once everyone started striving to win/compete in the Olympic arena, the art changed in that direction. Seems the same is happening with BJJ in recent years.

 

[dimmyfinster]

Yeah, well now we have MMA so the whole 'art vs art' discussion is almost entirely irrelevant. If you want to become the best fighter you can be, join an MMA gym. MMA as a distinct style has superseded any individual martial art. Why would you want to do MMA in pajamas with 4th rate striking when you can just go down the street and train with skilled wrestler/kick-boxers who also understand submissions and ground positioning (with strikes included)?

Helio mostly went around beating up Karate and Kung Fu guys. I'm pretty damn sure Keenan Cornelius could do the same if he wanted to. The bar is just higher now for actual combat. It's not 1993 anymore, stop trying to live in that world.

The truth. The whole "who is tougher on the street, berimbolo experts or old school BJJers" is like asking if my mom is hotter than your mom when Kate Upton is standing right next to both of us

 

[B33bs]

Did you train any martial arts previously? After training long enough in any martial art you're likely to have a much better sense of how to move and react during a confrontation.

Nope, never trained any Martial Arts... Just bjj... very humbling, really awesome.

 

[Toothless King]

LoL. BJJ (GI) is not dead.

The largest (in term of number of students) martial art academy in Orange County (and possibly southern california) is Mendes Brothers' academy. They have over 600 students and the gym is only 2 years old.

Across from MB's academy is an MMA/BJJ academy runs by a legit BJJ/Judo blackbelt with a very good MMA record (6-2). That gym only has 100+ students.

 

[Uchi Mata]

IF BJJ keeps going in the same direction it is today then in a short time it will have the same relationship to grappling in actual fighting that kung fu has to striking in actual fighting.

Only if BJJ guys stop sparring. That's really the key. Wrestling has a lot of positions that don't have much relation to fighting (going belly down with a guy on top of you, for example) but it doesn't hurt them any because they're still good grapplers due to tons of live work. What killed kung fu and karate wasn't sporty technique, it was lack of sparring. That's why contact karate and kung fu styles (kyokushin, san shou) produce perfectly competent strikers.

 

[Toothless King]

IF BJJ keeps going in the same direction it is today then in a short time it will have the same relationship to grappling in actual fighting that kung fu has to striking in actual fighting.

i think kyushin(sp?) karate/judo/wrestling are better comparison to sport BJJ because those sports have all out sparring/competition.

 

[armtriangle]

This is how sports work. If anyone actually watched wrestling, they would notice that it generally looks nothing like its MMA application either. You see guys tangled up in funk rolls waiting for the ref to restart it all the time. It is just playing to the quirks in scoring.

I just picked the very first 125# match I found from last year's NCAAs:




Both guys spend the first round tangled up and hanging on to ankles to prevent a score. It is a technicality. That is how sports work. Either one of these guys would blast you off your feet in five seconds, just like Miyao would choke you unconscious just as fast.

It is just sport application and playing to scoring quirks. It happens in all sports.

 

[Difeco]

IF BJJ keeps going in the same direction it is today then in a short time it will have the same relationship to grappling in actual fighting that kung fu has to striking in actual fighting.

watch Ben Henderson x Otavio Sousa in ADCC and see who taps.

He tapped...he didn't lose in some sort of leg entanglement or stupid sweep to score advantages

 

[Jeff Goldblum69]

This was probably the dumbest thing in the entire article. Not only does he conflate choice of techniques with dominance(passing guard is good but berimbolo is bad) it ignores the fact that Andre is much more of a staller than Paulo "double guard and berimbolo" Miyao(also ignores how most of the guys who play all these "crazy guards" also have excellent passing)

The point is Andre ain't getting his face smashed in.... Unlike miyao

 

[armtriangle]

Only if BJJ guys stop sparring. That's really the key. Wrestling has a lot of positions that don't have much relation to fighting (going belly down with a guy on top of you, for example) but it doesn't hurt them any because they're still good grapplers due to tons of live work. What killed kung fu and karate wasn't sporty technique, it was lack of sparring. That's why contact karate and kung fu styles (kyokushin, san shou) produce perfectly competent strikers.

Beat me to it, but this what I am saying. Watch actual wrestling matches. At least 90% of specifically tailored to the wrestling scoring rule set, it looks nothing like what MMA wrestling looks like, especially at the lighter weights. A lot of it looks worse that he berimbolo (at least the berimbolo if performed correctly will land you in a good spot, some wrestling positions are specifically for getting the ref to call a stalemate or "potentially dangerous"). But all those guys can also shoot a double leg. It is just what people have to do to beat another highly skilled guy in his own discipline.

 

[Balto]

Only if BJJ guys stop sparring. That's really the key. Wrestling has a lot of positions that don't have much relation to fighting (going belly down with a guy on top of you, for example) but it doesn't hurt them any because they're still good grapplers due to tons of live work. What killed kung fu and karate wasn't sporty technique, it was lack of sparring. That's why contact karate and kung fu styles (kyokushin, san shou) produce perfectly competent strikers.

Yeah it's funny when people talk about how lame Karate is compared to real fighting. Then you ask them if they want to spar or something and suddenly it's like oh no I don't like to get hit I just do grappling.

These guys don't actually want to fight. If they did, they'd be MMA guys. They just want to put on boxing gloves, throw "unskilled" strikes that don't actually do any damage by design, and have someone else defend those pillow strikes with a handful of TMA style defenses that would get you knocked out in modern MMA. You know, keeping it real.

I'm pretty sure if someone could just train a baboon to do this, the author would be perfectly satisfied at having achieved the realest combat ever.