Armchair Jiujitsu: Carwin's Shoulder Choke D?

[dizzydean]

I dunno if anyone human could have had escaped from those giant vice grips.

 

[FuneralPyre]

Reaching down and hugging your own leg stalemates the choke but it leaves you vulnerable to an armbar or a kimura.

The other commonly used defense is to "answer the phone" with your trapped arm. This creates space and usually prevents your opponent from finishing the choke. Couture escaped an arm triangle from Big Nog this way. This is usually what I do, and I wait for my opponent to burn out his arm strength and give up the choke. But to get out of it, I think you either have to work your arm back under your opponent's head, or you have to roll in the other direction and get to your knees before the choke gets too tight.

There's also a way to escape it by bridging and rolling your opponent over you, but that shit would not work on Brock Lesnar.

The arm triangle is really a great choke because the escapes all basically suck. You really just have to not let him get your head and arm trapped in the first place.

Sometimes you can't grab your leg, especially when you're talking about two big men. I have seen big guys drill the leg grab defense and fail miserably even though they're only drilling it. The choking man's huge body gets in the way.

IMO, the phone defense works well until he starts to cut the angle, then it fails. When Randy did it against Nog, Nog was in in half guard IIRC. He never got to mount, dismount, and start creeping up to get the angle. If it is really tight, you will still get tapped with the phone defense.

 

[knoxpk]

Also consider this position is very familiar and comfortable for wrestlers, aside from the placement of the man on bottoms arm the move is virtually identical to the headlock pin in amateur wrestling.

 

[Rjay]

IMO, the phone defense works well until he starts to cut the angle, then it fails. When Randy did it against Nog, Nog was in in half guard IIRC. He never got to mount, dismount, and start creeping up to get the angle. If it is really tight, you will still get tapped with the phone defense.

if the choke is deep the "answer the phone" defence either does nothing or I tap from a painful neck crank. IMO once it's locked up you're pretty much fucked.

 

[Apaulo]

Don't say what he should have done he has amal easton in his corner he knows it just happend to fast.

 

[ARONAbeatFEDOR***]

Lets not get to far away from the fact that Lesnar used pretty damn good technique to get that sub. He passed to mount, with the head already in position, took the time in mount to "sinch" it up and then dismounted, applied, dropped his hips and when he couldn't get the finish, instead of staying there and muscling it he walked his hips out toward Carwin's head.

Not bad imo.

Carwin literally put his own arm over Lesnar's head, giving him the choke.

 

[MUFC]

I mentioned in a Ben Askren thread that head and arm chokes seem to be money for top wrestlers.

Still true.

 

[keynote]

I always wrap my inside leg, and teeter-totter to escape. If they're holding on tight, they'll allow you to reverse every time.

Edit: From this same position with the leg wrapped, you can do a back roll to escape as well.

 

[ASEGSEA]

Actually, yeah, I would've grabbed my left foot with my trapped arm as a last ditch attempt to survive. (I think that's what you're saying, sort of?)

But, more than likely, against someone as strong as Lesnar, I would just look like an idiot holding my own damn foot as I pass out.

lol

 

[Cannibal Matt]

Lets not get to far away from the fact that Lesnar used pretty damn good technique to get that sub. He passed to mount, with the head already in position, took the time in mount to "sinch" it up and then dismounted, applied, dropped his hips and when he couldn't get the finish, instead of staying there and muscling it he walked his hips out toward Carwin's head.

Not bad imo.

I agree. Brock is the man. He's going to really scary if he learns a submission game.

As for defense - when some gets that on me when rolling I do everything I can to prevent them from getting tot he side so they can't "walk their hips up". That is what really puts the pressure on.

 

[knoxpk]

I always wrap my inside leg, and teeter-totter to escape. If they're holding on tight, they'll allow you to reverse every time.

Edit: From this same position with the leg wrapped, you can do a back roll to escape as well.

This is very similar to a traditional headlock escape. Usually a sit out and lifting of the head hampers that strategy. It is one of those situations where you get the position early or you dont get it at all.

 

[dza76wutang]

Given Carwin's huge shoulders and neck I think Brock's 400" reach is the only pair of arms that can loop around and have the power to cinch it for a tap.

Kudos to Brock though, he was gracious in victory and displayed some diversity in his game. As much as I didn't want to see him win, if he keeps the "heel" act to a minimum he may win me over.

 

[the heed]

It didn't matter if he properly defended it..
he had nothing left in his gas tank

 

[ijustwannasurf]

Was that Comprido in Brock's corner?

 

[Coolcatsithe]

Carwin should have done the wet willy defense.





























Brock hates the wet willy.

 

[nothinbutMHS]

i think carwin defended well, as rogan pointed out, but he didn't hip bump away from lesnar to his knees to slip out. he defended until lesnar worked his way up and closed the choke.

 

[fourfif**]

you can see he traps the elbow before rolling him to negate the base. that was very smooth.

 

[newdiamonds]

I'm by no means a Lesnar fan, but that sub was impressive. He took his time slowly tightened it up, and got the tap.

Impressive

 

[fourfif**]

This is very similar to a traditional headlock escape. Usually a sit out and lifting of the head hampers that strategy. It is one of those situations where you get the position early or you dont get it at all.

qfmft.

the reason it worked in the video above is because the top man lost his position, went to his knees close to bottom man's hips, basically bad position. most people will stay flat, take your back if you turn in, or sit out and lift the head like you said.

Coincidentally and I'm sure you can vouch for this knox, in wrestling you are encouraged to position the opponent's arm across the head, and keep it tight with head and shoulder pressure. You get the pin long before you can put someone out though.

With Brock, once he has it, it's going to be a wrap. Brock with subs is a SCARY DUDE. He showed he's a great wrestler in taking down a big division 2 champ with good tdd (be stuffed brock in rd 1), he's got subs, and he's got heart.

All that being said, I still got Cain.

 

[UbiquitousMinds]

Did anyone else feel Carwin practically gave that arm triangle up?

I'm not suggesting a fix, but... it looks like he voluntarily pushed his arm though so his shoulder would be between brocks head and his own.


I used to do that when I just started grappling. I learned how bad an idea it is doing that and stopped quickly, long before my blue belt.