Law Arkansas Bans Child Trans Surgery, Puberty Blockers For Minors, heads to governor’s desk

[Natural Order]

https://answers.childrenshospital.org/puberty-blockers-suicidal-thoughts/

First of its kind....

Jesus....

 

[salamander]

What's the 15 handstand pushups going to do at this point? You've already collected his scalp.

Imagine dealing with the bullshit argumentative protocol that states: That which does not fellate me, must surely want me dead!

If you aren't a bag of weed, a plate of home-made Lithuanian perogy's, or a West African Albino you have absolutely nothing to worry about from me in this world. This is the second time in as many weeks I've been accused of harboring violent intent for the mere act of disagreeing with someone's opinion. They won't cite anything to justify the calumny, they just accuse you and dicktuck. I know got salty with him, but this dude is a historically shameless liar. It's hard to manufacture patience with people who have no honor or shame or the talent to at least pretend that they do.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

The controversy around pubertal suppression for transgendered teens only exists in right-wing media and your Sunday school class. There is a clear consensus across the relevant medical associations (American Psychiatric Association, American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry, American Academy of Pediatrics, Endocrine Society, Pediatric Endocrine Society, etc), and it's not what you're suggesting.

in fairness it's not the same debate
one is about whether these SHOULD be given to kids, who might be subject to peer pressure, media and social media imitation, etc.
the second is about if kids take those blockers, it would allow a smoother transition, "passing", which in turn lowers the suicide rate.
personally option 2 is stupid. maturity does not start at 18, only legal maturity. you don't know shit about the world or yourself at that age. honestly the only trans i'd consider honest is for people 35 plus. "passing" is irrelevant. if your entire life is centered around how others see you, that's not someone to support, but to pity.
if at 35 some dude decides it's his lifelong desire to transition and live his life as a woman, op or not, fine. at least it has the authority of maturity to back that up. some 18 year old kid? yeah, nah. it's just catering to a salad of mental health issues, peer pressure, imitation, etc.

 

[lifelessheap]

Right wingers think if a kid is "crazy" enough to believe they were born in the wrong body they are probably better off dead. And I am not joking.

Nobody thinks that. You are a liar and a psychopath for saying that.

And if you can't be trusted to buy cigarettes, then you are too immature to make the decision to alter your hormones.

18 seems fine. Let them mature. Humans are idiots until 25.

 

[Fugazy]

in fairness it's not the same debate
one is about whether these SHOULD be given to kids, who might be subject to peer pressure, media and social media imitation, etc.
the second is about if kids take those blockers, it would allow a smoother transition, "passing", which in turn lowers the suicide rate.
personally option 2 is stupid. maturity does not start at 18, only legal maturity. you don't know shit about the world or yourself at that age. honestly the only trans i'd consider honest is for people 35 plus. "passing" is irrelevant. if your entire life is centered around how others see you, that's not someone to support, but to pity.
if at 35 some dude decides it's his lifelong desire to transition and live his life as a woman, op or not, fine. at least it has the authority of maturity to back that up. some 18 year old kid? yeah, nah. it's just catering to a salad of mental health issues, peer pressure, imitation, etc.

Perfectly put.

 

[Fugazy]

<45><Lmaoo><Lmaoo>

I'm not sure if that is true or not re: difficulty of surgery, but not all transgendered people want to surgically transition. I think only around half of them do, and many who want to will never be able to afford it anyway. The bigger thing I think for most should be pretty intuitive: the ability to pass in society as the desired gender. This is much easier to do when the non-preferred secondary sexual characteristics are inhibited during puberty.

Observe.

vs

One of these two will have a much easier time in life and a much lower chance of being a victim of a violent attack.



This are not causing permanent changes. GnRH analogues pause puberty and give teens more time to decide what they want to do. They can stop these at any time if they change their mind. If they do decide to transition in a few years when they turn 18, it is much easier than if they've already developed manly bone structures, a deep voice, and a giant Adams apple.

Brah, nothing is changing the jawline on that beast. And there are plenty little delicate mfers that already look like a girl.

Do you know how you sound? You think you can just “pause” puberty and pick it up later with no ill effects?

That’s some good propaganda you’re smoking. Hope you brought enough for everyone else here.

 

[Lubaolong]

I know so. And you also know the thread I'm referring to, tubby. Would you like me to remind you? In front of all these people?

No idea what you’re talking about, so knock yourself out.

 

[Lubaolong]

<45><Lmaoo><Lmaoo>
Do you know how you sound? You think you can just “pause” puberty and pick it up later with no ill effects?

You’ve clearly already made up you mind about this despite not knowing anything about it. Don’t worry about my opinion or literally every relevant medical association’s consensus opinion. Obviously, no one working in any of these fields know what they are talking about.

 

[Natural Order]

You’ve clearly already made up you mind about this despite not knowing anything about it. Don’t worry about my opinion or literally every relevant medical association’s consensus opinion. Obviously, no one working in any of these fields know what they are talking about.

That unfettered appeal to authority and supposed expertise..........even in the face of decades of ignorant decisions and malpractice everywhere you look.

Yet you dummies drop a first of its kind study and quote it as gospel.

Think better.

 

[Lubaolong]

this dude is a historically shameless liar.

Can’t a rich doctor just share some opinions online without being called a shameless liar?

won't cite anything to justify the calumny, they just accuse you and dicktuck.

Like you’re doing? Coooool story, bro.

 

[salamander]

Can’t a rich doctor just share some opinions online without being called a shameless liar?



Like you’re doing? Coooool story, bro.

You're a "rich doctor" this time?
lol ok.

Are you going to cite the post where I indicated that I would be in any way violent towards transgender people?

Are you going refute the basis of my argument that was encapsulated in the petition that was posted?

 

[method115]

It’s crazy to me that anyone thinks it’s ok to let kids make this decision.

 

[Lubaolong]

You're a "rich doctor" this time?
lol ok.

Well, wealth is relative. I may not consider myself rich, but I'm sure you and most of society would.

"This time?" I'm pretty sure this has been my schtick here for almost the last decade.

And I've definitely never claimed to be a lawyer because I'm not. At most, I may have mentioned tutoring the LSAT many years ago.

Are you going to cite the post where I indicated that I would be in any way violent towards transgender people?

I said a super manly looking trans would be more likely to be beat up by @salamander than a very feminine looking Asian. That's an opinion based on the comments you've made regarding transgendered individuals and other risk factors for violence you've demonstrated.

 

[salamander]

I said a super manly looking trans would be more likely to be beat up by @salamander than a very feminine looking Asian. That's an opinion based on the comments you've made regarding transgendered individuals and other risk factors for violence you've demonstrated.

Ok whatever, you're a... rich doctor. Cool

"That which does not fellate me, obviously must want to kill me." Does liquid vagina flow through that cheesburger heart of yours?

Which comments? Which risk factors? Give me specifics and I'll gladly take my dubs if there is any post I've ever made that posits even a whiff of violent animosity to trans people.

And after you make an ass of yourself trying to do so, answer to the info provided in the petition I posted.

Do those female concerns not merit discussion without censure? Is there anything in these words that infers against men in dresses?

Misuse of science - Sex is determined by objective, physical criteria, not mental states. Mammals can’t change sex. Some doctors and scientists, may go along with changing social or legal markers out of an attempt to be polite or ease suffering, to save their careers from the online mob, or to attract a new market in patients: but they’re never going to submit a peer-reviewed paper documenting a case in which a human being changes from male to female Nor will they submit a paper worrying over the pronouns of cows, or classifying any animal research subjects by sex on any basis other than the type of gamete they’d produce if they were healthy and reproductively active. Stop encouraging the idea that sex is a “social construct.” Stop claiming that the fact that sex exists is “white colonialism,” as though colonial-era Europeans were the only people who ever figured out how babies are made, and no one else knew until they showed up. This is nonsense on par with claiming that the Earth is flat and it makes everyone who repeats it sound ridiculous.

Misuse of suicide statistics - In addition to basing claims of high suicide rates mainly on poorly designed surveys, movement leaders advance the idea that suicide risk is both a reason to immediately give in to their demands, and to immediately admit that the undefinable category of “transgender people” are the most oppressed of all. Suicide rates are related to a mix of cultural and socioeconomic factors, and prevention experts warn strongly against the counterfactual and simplistic attribution of self harm to any single cause. Not only that, but extensive data gathered over decades demonstrates that the phenomenon is not straightforwardly tied to oppression. If oppression were judged by that standard, white men would be the second most oppressed people in the US, after only Native American men, having a suicide rate more than twice as high as Hispanic, black, or Asian men, or women of any ethnic background. We implore you as a movement to invest some time becoming familiar with the guidelines issue by the National Action Alliance for Suicide Prevention for developing responsible messaging about suicide, and learning to avoid the very real threat of spreading suicide contagion. As to coercive suicide threats -- which movement leadership seems to have trained people to issue on behalf of themselves or others, often related to medical transition and compelled speech demands -- many abused women remember this type of abuse for what it is: a tool of coercive control that will soon wear out its welcome as more people come to that realization.

Cosmetic sterilization of healthy children - In the US, healthy 13-year-old girls are getting mastectomies, 14-year-old girls are getting deliberately thrown into menopause by their doctors, and 16-year-old boys are being chemically or surgically castrated. Many of these children will also face a lifetime of sexual immaturity, without the likelihood of ever experiencing mature desire or its satisfaction. For girls, in particular, this is being done without significant attention to the potential risks to cardiovascular health and life expectancy already known to be posed by ovarian failure before the age of 40. Survey data and past studies on gender dysphoria indicate that most of these children would otherwise have grown up to be same-sex attracted, and many more than expected are on the autism spectrum. Everywhere that early puberty blockers are being followed immediately by cross-sex hormones, children are being chemically sterilized, when the majority of them would have become comfortable with their bodies through the course of a natural puberty, and because of the mechanisms of puberty. Targeting LGB and autistic children for sterilization, and encouraging it as a way for these often marginalized or abused children to feel “normal,” is a eugenic crime against humanity. The world deserves better from all of you.

Anti-lesbian harassment - Telling young lesbians that a rejection of sex with male people is “transphobic” is an appalling example of homophobia, which has become endemic to the so-called LGBT community. Young women and girls first coming to understand their exclusive same-sex attraction go to the “queer” community for acceptance, and too often get told that they’re “vagina fetishists,” “violently exclusionary,” or that they are probably straight men “trapped in the wrong body.” What’s more, few if any gay men are subject to this kind of homophobic abuse, though even that appears to be on the rise. This is grooming and conversion therapy. Movement leaders must speak out against this now-common practice or they shouldn’t pretend to care about lesbians.

Lesbian & gay erasure - Calling heterosexual men who enjoy dressing “as women” lesbians, or calling heterosexual women who’ve undergone extensive body modification gay men, is an erasure of the unique experience of being exclusively same-sex attracted. Stop calling straight people lesbians, or gay. Particularly, stop encouraging heterosexual men to represent themselves as lesbians, or be promoted by your organizations and grantees as if they were lesbians and entitled to speak for women on that basis; this is homophobic and insulting to all women.

Transing the dead and historical revision - Stop erasing historical gender non-conforming LGB people, some of which assumed names and identities that allowed them freedom of action in societies with strict gender roles for the sexes. Saying this means that they were really transgender and the opposite sex eliminates numerous role models for same-sex attracted young people and adults, and writes out the historical contributions of LGB people. Stop erasing the Nazi regime’s homicidal rampages against gay men — particularly their attack on the gay, Jewish scientist Magnus Hirschfield — with claims that their main targets were the group of men known at the time as transvestites, when drag was not forbidden even to Nazi officers. Stop stealing the history of gay men, like Marsha P. Johnson, who described themselves in their own words as gay men who were drag performers, or hiding the bravery of butch lesbians like Stormé DeLarverie. For women, this revisionism often means telling girls and women that the very few female historical figures who were allowed to take leading roles in their eras or whose stories have been passed down were really men. From taking Stonewall and gay liberation away from the lesbians and gay men who liberated themselves, to taking heroes like Joan of Arc and Pauli Murray away from women, stop this Mary Sue-style rewriting of history to claim that “trans” people did everything of note otherwise credited to women and same-sex attracted persons.

Seeking and securing extraordinary privileges for terrible men, while endangering incarcerated women - You are seeking a world in which every incarcerated woman also has to worry about having to share a cell with violent men like Michelle Kosilek, Synthia China Blast, Dana Rivers, Christopher Hambrook, Karen White, Christyl Knight, Sean Pudwell, or Ian Huntley. People like Chad Sevearance Turner have been welcomed into the leadership of organizations that push to destroy women's rights and bodily privacy. The utter disregard of the gender identity movement for women's safety from male violence could hardly be more evident than in the extreme efforts you have made to ensure that no one was allowed to publicly discuss how your proposed policies affect the rights, safety, and feelings of incarcerated women, a demographic characterized by high rates of poverty and previous abuse. The housing of male wife-murderers, rapists, and child molesters in women's prisons is an inevitable result of ending the legal distinction between male and female persons. The use of extremely lenient policies on hiding past identities based on gender identity claims has already allowed predators like Allison Woolbert and Johanna Wolf to reinvent themselves as human rights campaigners. The public is naturally disturbed by such revelations, and they reflect badly not only on your leadership and judgement, but on the vulnerable people you claim to represent. It’s additionally odious that you support these violent men while claiming to represent bisexual women, the most likely demographic by orientation to have been subject to the kinds of family or intimate partner violence these men engage in.

 

[salamander]

Calling women and girls degrading, dehumanizing names - Stop calling us menstruators, bleeders, breeders, cervix havers, egg producers, uterus bearers, pregnant people, people with vaginas, non-prostate owners, non-men, vulva owners, front-hole havers, chestfeeders, or any other term that submerges our humanity into an anatomy lesson, for the sadistic purpose of telling us that our anatomy doesn't matter to you. We are not “cis,” or “cisgender,” suggesting that we picked, or were allowed to pick, being female or being expected to conform to feminine sex stereotypes. We are women and girls, which are the proper terms for human females.

Appropriating intersex language - Stop stealing from intersex discourse to call all women and girls AFAB, assigned female at birth, unless you're using an intersex person's terms for herself, or vice versa with using AMAB. You can't identify into or out of having an intersex diagnosis, whereas only 0.02% of the population has a condition that makes it medically difficult to determine their sex, and it's insulting to suggest otherwise. There is also no such thing as having an intersex condition of the mind. Mental traits or predispositions are not passed to children solely and automatically from mother to daughter, or from father to son, and sex is nowhere determined on the basis of such elusive mental traits.

Prioritizing untreated psychological distress over physical health - In the UK, trans-identified males now get called in for smear tests of cervixes they don’t have, while trans-identified females don’t get reminded about these tests in spite of the heightened risk they face for reproductive health anomalies due to testosterone treatment. Trans-identified individuals are encouraged to feel discriminated against by health providers who correctly identify their sex, and to regard any treatment for co-morbid mental health issues as conversion therapy, or to believe that transition will solve even problems caused by developmental disorders, whereas there are numerous health needs that differ by sex. Because researchers have barely begun consistently including women in drug trials, the most common cause of drug recalls is previously unidentified side effects in women, and many conditions that only or primarily affect women have barely been studied. It can be dangerous for men to get blood transfusions from women who have ever been pregnant. Men and women react differently, overall, to medications ranging from pain relievers to anesthesia. Men and women have different risk profiles for autoimmune disorders. Men and women often have different heart attack symptoms. Encouraging patients and providers to act as if sex should be irrelevant to medical care puts people’s lives at risk, and discourages honest, medically accurate conversations about the health of the reproductive system, in particular. Without regard for the health of any person who may be rendered unconscious -- far from anyone who knows them, or perhaps severely injured -- you encourage people to change all their legal and medical sex markers, even to lobby to insist on this for soldiers in war zones, for the elderly, or for the chronically ill, whereas it may be a matter of life or death someday that emergency medical staff be able to correctly know the sex of a stranger in their care with ease.

In conclusion, while claiming to fight sexism, you work to forbid the law to see sex. This will not work to end discrimination against women. While claiming to fight homophobia, you promote the neutering of many youth whom you know are likely to grow up to be happily same-sex attracted, and abet the abuse of lesbians and gay men over exclusive same-sex attraction. This will not end discrimination against LGB people. While claiming to fight transphobia, you demand that trans identities be turned into secrets, and allowed to be used as an escape hatch from ordinary background disclosures. This will not end the irrational fear of people who aren’t happy performing the stereotyped roles and social presentations associated with their sex.

Do better, please. If not, please stop claiming to work for the liberation of same-sex attracted women in particular, or any other women, in general.

 

[Lubaolong]

And after you make an ass of yourself trying to do so, answer to the info provided in the petition I posted.

It seems you've mistaken me for someone who cares about your uninformed opinion. You post a giant wall of text you copied from your Sunday school bulletin and expect me to waste my time responding to it and giving you an unwarranted air of credibility? Do you think I don't have better things to do today than this? I have to hop on a flight to LA in just a bit and then have a very difficult few days ahead of me relaxing in a Ritz Carlton suite in Lake Tahoe. I don't have time for your nonsense. I already feel retarded for even replying to you.

 

[salamander]

It seems you've mistaken me for someone who cares about your uninformed opinion. You post a giant wall of text you copied from your Sunday school bulletin and expect me to waste my time responding to it and giving you an unwarranted air of credibility? Do you think I don't have better things to do today than this? I have to hop on a flight to LA in just a bit and then have a very difficult few days ahead of me relaxing in a Ritz Carlton suite in Lake Tahoe. I don't have time for your nonsense. I already feel retarded for even replying to you.

You cared enough to respond to me throughout this thread, while simoultasntously not backing up your claims against me. You can't answer to any of the information presented. Instead you lapse into your crayon e-persona and scuttle off into Froopyland.

Shalom.

 

[ultramanhyata]

Nobody thinks that. You are a liar and a psychopath for saying that.

And if you can't be trusted to buy cigarettes, then you are too immature to make the decision to alter your hormones.

18 seems fine. Let them mature. Humans are idiots until 25.

Unless you can provide evidence that puberty blockers do not reduce the incidence of suicidal ideation in trans minors your last line directly contradicts your first claim. Which is no surprise to anyone familiar with what the right thinks about the "value" of kids who struggle with gender dysphoria.

 

[Lubaolong]

@salamander there is a different in can’t and won’t. It’s the same reason I may post a couple heckling comments to antivaxxers and CTers. You’re not worth more than that.

And I would recommend the Ritz Carlton if you are headed to Tahoe. (The hotels on the south side of the lake are shit.). The suites can be a few thousand on a lot of days, but I got a nice one during this next week for less than $1k a night. You can’t beat that.

 

[salamander]

@salamander there is a different in can’t and won’t. It’s the same reason I may post a couple heckling comments to antivaxxers and CTers. You’re not worth more than that.

And I would recommend the Ritz Carlton if you are headed to Tahoe. (The hotels on the south side of the lake are shit.). The suites can be a few thousand on a lot of days, but I got a nice one during this next week for less than $1k a night. You can’t beat that.

RidenwithBiden puts you to shame.