Economy Argentina just suffered the 2nd-biggest crash since 1950 for any stock market

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by VivaRevolution, Aug 13, 2019 at 7:56 PM.

  1. phoenixikki

    phoenixikki Brown Belt

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    {<jordan}
    Come on Ruprecht, I thought you were better than this.

    "Argentina has a long history of fiscal crises and it was only in 2016, under Macri, that the country put its most recent sovereign default behind it. Argentines still remember the 15-year default saga and deep recessions following a record default in 2001. Investors are fearing the worst. Fernandez was cabinet chief under former President Nestor Kirchner, while his vice presidential pick, Cristina Kirchner, led the republic for eight years before Macri came to power. During her time in office, Argentina was marked by currency controls, data manipulation and protectionist policies on trade to protect national industry. And, of course, it was also punctuated by another default that made the country an international pariah for years." https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ll-off-in-argentina-after-macri-loses-primary
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019 at 4:03 AM
  2. Not A Theist

    Not A Theist Purple Belt

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    I'm largely ignorant on this matter, but is it "the bankers" who crash the stock market like this, or the people buying and selling stocks? Unless the nebulous "bankers" are simply those who trade stocks.

    It sounds a bit like people are suggesting that when the election went the way the moneyed people didn't want they hit a big button that said "tank economy" on it. As I understood it - and again, my understanding of the stock market is limited at best - what stocks reflect is how much interest in investing there is in a certain company. In the event of an election which tanks the stock market it's not the banks pushing some big button, but rather countless individual investors, or portfolio managers, that suddenly view the place as a bad place to invest. When that starts happening it triggers a snowball effect which has other investors seeing the signs of their investments devaluing and then selling - which triggers others selling as well, and so on.

    I look forward to being educated on this by more knowledgeable posters if my understanding is way off base.
     
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  3. Ruprecht

    Ruprecht Hands Of The Judges Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    I'm not sure what you aren't understanding? The point is that it simply isn't true that, "the economy was slowly recovering under Macri".
    That's why he lost. The economy has deteriorated and, worse yet, he turned to the IMF.
     
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  4. Not A Theist

    Not A Theist Purple Belt

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    I'm largely economically ignorant, but I think I just lived through a very mild version of such a contraction in the 2015 election of a left leaning politician in my province. Again, it was mild, but the prospect of having someone who wouldn't legislate in their favour dropped investor confidence tremendously and it led to a lot of investment being wary of entering the province. We just got a right wing guy elected and there was an immediate uptick. A less stable economy could be hit by something like this much, much harder, I'd imagine.
     
  5. JonesBones

    JonesBones Excuse my contraflow

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    Conspiracy theorists were destroyed in this thread.
     
  6. phoenixikki

    phoenixikki Brown Belt

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    Did you read what I posted before? Argentina's economy growth during Kirchner's was a lie funded by careless expenditure. That's a fact. Macri was basically handed a ticking bomb. He definitely wasn't the first president to seek IMF's help. And the market was indeed slowly recovering until the horrible news.

    Macri’s hopes brighten as Argentina’s economy improves

    "After months of turmoil and a $56bn IMF bailout, talk of economic recovery in Argentina may be relative — but it is enough to give President Mauricio Macri renewed hope ahead of October’s election. Investors dumped Argentine assets three months ago after an opinion poll suggested Mr Macri’s re-election bid was in danger. The peso slumped, exacerbating the economic turmoil that has been an unwanted hallmark of his last year in office. But the peso has since stabilised, appreciating 9 per cent since the beginning of May, and a range of economic indicators are being pulled along in its wake. Monthly inflation has fallen from 4.7 per cent in March to 2.7 per cent in June, which has allowed a pick-up in real wages."

    You got some bad info from a biased source. No big deal, it happens. I've been following Argentina's headlines for years since it's related to my job. Of course a partisan journalist will blame Macri for a crisis that has been going on for decades.
     
  7. Ruprecht

    Ruprecht Hands Of The Judges Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    What do you think, "After months of turmoil and a $56bn IMF bailout, talk of economic recovery in Argentina may be relative" means?
    The information is objective measurement of economic performance. Your source right there mentions the inflation and the IMF (Argentina's not on track to meet their deficit targets this quarter, which will no doubt mean IMF austerity measures) and of course there's the interest rates, layoffs (in the private sector, not the public layoffs) and of course the impact on agricultural exports already suffering from declining Chinese demand.
    The fact that he wasn't the first to go to the IMF is the problem. It's not like their history with Argentina is positive (there's no claiming IMF intervention in the '90s was a success, let alone earlier). $57 Billion is the biggest IMF loan in history.
     
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  8. robotsonic

    robotsonic Brown Belt

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    LOL this isn't bankers crashing the economy. Argentina's socialist governments in the past have been quick to claim assets of companies operating in the country without any recompense. They usually use the whole 'foreign capitalists exploiting us' as an excuse to steal from multinationals, look up the Repsol/YPF situation from a few years ago. Under Macri their economy was more stable and moving in the right direction, ie giving foreign capital assurances that it wouldn't be nationalised by the government, hence more investment in the country.

    Now that there is a socialist party gaining votes a lot of that foreign capital is spooked because they know what the MO of these parties are, claim they are being exploited by the US, capitalists, Jews (yes, seriously), and then steal their assets through nationalisation initiatives. Logically they are now pulling money out which has caused this crash.
     
  9. Mcountry

    Mcountry Brown Belt

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    Oh jesus fucking christ...
     
  10. JSN

    JSN Bitch Lasagna

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    basically what is happening is Argentina is a crap country and crap countries always have periods of extreme instability.
     
  11. VivaRevolution

    VivaRevolution Whoopin' Belt Yellow Card

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    I'm guessing that Jews line works well with the Nazi vote in Argentina.
     
  12. Amerikuracana

    Amerikuracana Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    At the very top they have too much money to worry about losing half, and it's more about power.
     
  13. Mcountry

    Mcountry Brown Belt

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    This sounds like a reasonable hypothesis.
     
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  14. robotsonic

    robotsonic Brown Belt

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    Anti semitism is actually very popular among socialists, the idea of Jews as international capitalists, etc, left wingers hate admitting this but the Nazi party (Nationalist Socialists) were following a well worn socialist road in attacking Jews as a hostile foreign influence that controlled the banks. Many pogroms were launched against Jewish people in Soviet Russia.
     
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  15. Rod1

    Rod1 Titanium Belt

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    And it continued during Macri, what's your point?

    Macri kicked the can down the road hoping for some "miracle" to happen that would pay for the deficit, of course the miracle (foreign investment fueled growth) wasnt going to happen until Argentina showed it can actually balance a budget, he didnt, he paid the price.
     
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  16. Rod1

    Rod1 Titanium Belt

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    Of course they mean it, because they have done it before, dont blame people for taking precautions when people that are known to steal assets get into power.
     
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  17. Rod1

    Rod1 Titanium Belt

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    Macri paid off debts by borrowing from the IMF and kicking the can down the road.

    Basically

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. Rod1

    Rod1 Titanium Belt

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    No Argentinian president has ever received a pristine country, even the Kirchners came into power after the Menem disaster.

    You said specifically that Macri was doing "fine" and that he was improving the country, and he did neither, and thus he is paying for it.

    He should had prioritized fiscal and macroeconomic stability over all.
     
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  19. VivaRevolution

    VivaRevolution Whoopin' Belt Yellow Card

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    Like Trump?

    Taj Mahal inspire allot of confidence?
     
  20. loyalyolayal

    loyalyolayal Steel Belt

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    Are they going to make a musical out of this? Who's gonna play George Soros?
     
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