Aren't punches way too dangerous to use in real fights?

[chino0503]

Sooo have you guys established yet whether or not punches are too dangerous for the streetz or what?

punches.... too... dangerous... to... use... in... fights.............


Are legs too risky to use in a marathon?

just about sums it up

 

[ex0]

I agree with you about the straight punches being safer, but will have to disagree about the knuckles. It has not yet been proven that either one is safer/better than the other. Take a look at a medical X-ray of a fist, the top two big knuckles are lined up on the bones of the arms providing a solid backing and being the biggest knuckle bones in the hand are harder to break.. of the bottom 3 knuckles only the top to are supported by the wrist. the pinky knuckle is hung out to dry no matter how you look at it and why it is the most common bust knuckle in a fist. The single best knuckle for power transfer is the third knuckle of the hand. At the end of the day it ends up being a wash for the best way to hit and becomes a matter of preference.The only "safe" straight line hand strike is a palm heel, but even then if you miss you can still end up breaking your fingers.

I agree with your general idea that palm strikes, eye gouges, and headlocks and elbows and stomps would be better to conserve your hands, even if just to prevent bruised knuckles and rough/ripped skin the next day.

But about the bolded part. Yeah, you try to spread the force out over 3 knuckles, but realistically, your aiming to hit with the middle and ring finger knuckles. Those 2 are directly supported, and the pinky is just like the index finger. You don't want to hit with just these knuckles by itself. If you aim to hit with the middle and ring finger, you have more room for error with an extra knuckle on each side of them.

The third knuckle bit itself is also weak. One knuckle(even if middle finger) simply cannot balance and support that much pressure from impact, it's much better for your wrist if 2 connect, and much more structurally sound. Once again, i refer you to press each knuckle combination against the wall and see how strong it feels and how much pressure you can generate/withstand from your structure alone

 

[NuTzOnSwOll]

I agree with your general idea that palm strikes, eye gouges, and headlocks and elbows and stomps would be better to conserve your hands, even if just to prevent bruised knuckles and rough/ripped skin the next day.

yes but the question is , can your anus withstand the violent assault that will be perpetuated on it when its imprisoned for assault n battery ?

Assuming from your stated desire to "prevent rough skin" i'll take it the answer is no.

Thats of course if you dont get shanked for spouting your Kung fu mumbo jumbo in there !
but hey at least you'll have nice hands !

:icon_lol:

 

[panamaican]

yes but the question is , can your anus withstand the violent assault that will be perpetuated on it when its imprisoned for assault n battery ?

Assuming from your stated desire to "prevent rough skin" i'll take it the answer is no.

Thats of course if you dont get shanked for spouting your Kung fu mumbo jumbo in there !
but hey at least you'll have nice hands !

:icon_lol:

I'm really curious what the point of this post was?

 

[DECAPITATION]

so basically in a street fight dont use any form of martial arts (from what Im getting from this thread)

But really do you guys think that people like cro cop or saenchai would have any trouble landing a high kick on some random guy in a street fight?I personally believe it would be easier for them to land it there than in a pro fight where people know what there doing.

 

[jlagman]

This is wrong on every level, if you can time a kick well and deliver no matter how high it is then it's ok to throw. People think guys that have never thought can catch kicks. Yeah it can happen but against someone with no training it's unlickely. Honestly I wouldn't enjoy breaking my hand but in a life or death situation I'll do whatever I have to do to survive even if that means soaring my own hand off.

Dude, catching kicks isn't super hard.

:icon_neut

 

[SAAMAG]

Dude, catching kicks isn't super hard.

:icon_neut

If that was the case then EVERY kick being thrown would be caught.

 

[zx]

Elbovs are the best weapon in these situations.

 

[MajorTom]

There is such a thing as punching technique that makes it more difficult to break your hand. It's hard to break your hand when throwing a punch correctly so you have to hit really hard. Or hit the wrong part of a body.

 

[Kozbot]

Dude, catching kicks isn't super hard.

:icon_neut

Dude, maybe you just suck at kicking?

My friend got into a barfight and got completely KOed outright from a highkick.

 

[Tsingani]

I agree with your general idea that palm strikes, eye gouges, and headlocks and elbows and stomps would be better to conserve your hands, even if just to prevent bruised knuckles and rough/ripped skin the next day.

But about the bolded part. Yeah, you try to spread the force out over 3 knuckles, but realistically, your aiming to hit with the middle and ring finger knuckles. Those 2 are directly supported, and the pinky is just like the index finger. You don't want to hit with just these knuckles by itself. If you aim to hit with the middle and ring finger, you have more room for error with an extra knuckle on each side of them.

The third knuckle bit itself is also weak. One knuckle (even if middle finger) simply cannot balance and support that much pressure from impact, it's much better for your wrist if 2 connect, and much more structurally sound. Once again, i refer you to press each knuckle combination against the wall and see how strong it feels and how much pressure you can generate/withstand from your structure alone

You've got a good point.

When i broke my hand from punching, the doctors at the hospital said that usually when people brake their hands in fights it's the 4th knuckle. They even had an informative poster on the wall to show this..... so i believe it

I tend to mostly throw punches with the fist vertical, even my hooks. Others choose to throw hooks with the fist horizontal and with a raised elbow, so if you get your distance wrong, only the last 1 or 2 knuckles hit your target.

There is much debate on thumb up or thumb down so we wont go into that,

 

[HomerPlata]

A good boxer can get an inexperienced guy to hit the top of the head and break his hand.

Hahahaha what?? You've seen that film with Brian Dennehy and Cuba Gooding Jnr. haven't you! Hahaha. Great tip.

 

[SowChoy]

palm strikes, elbows, kick/knees in the nuts. that's it.

This

 

[ex0]

I'm really curious what the point of this post was?

He's still raging because i schooled him on the same thing in the thread below, or he must be a boxer and think verticle fist and bottom 3 knuckles are 'kung fu' mumbo jumbo and that there is no science behind it.. but i guess he probably also doesn't know that that is how bareknuckle boxers from the golden age of pugilism actually fought in prizefights. He probably also thinks that gloves did not shape current boxing strikes(like horizontal fist, elbow up hooks), or that gloves don't protect the hand at all and are purely meant to only protect the other guy. I've had this conversation before, and there are always morons who try to deny physics or science and pass it off as 'traditional kung fu mumbo jumbo'.

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f11/a...martial-artist-hates-mma-1271457/index11.html

EDIT: If you guys really want to train bareknuckle, i suggest you do bareknuckle pushups(try do them with top 2 knuckles and see how far you get vs bottom 3. When you develop problems with your wrist however, don't blame me lol). They will strengthen your wrist, let you know how much your wrist can handle, the alignment required etc and also toughen up your knuckles/skin. Make sure to try both horizontal, and verticle, and spread your arms to different angles to get a good workout(hooks and straight line punches). Then go do bareknuckle bagwork(AFTER you understand the structure/physics behind it so you don't fuck up your wrist).

 

[barnowl]

I agree with your general idea that palm strikes, eye gouges, and headlocks and elbows and stomps would be better to conserve your hands, even if just to prevent bruised knuckles and rough/ripped skin the next day.

But about the bolded part. Yeah, you try to spread the force out over 3 knuckles, but realistically, your aiming to hit with the middle and ring finger knuckles. Those 2 are directly supported, and the pinky is just like the index finger. You don't want to hit with just these knuckles by itself. If you aim to hit with the middle and ring finger, you have more room for error with an extra knuckle on each side of them.

The third knuckle bit itself is also weak. One knuckle(even if middle finger) simply cannot balance and support that much pressure from impact, it's much better for your wrist if 2 connect, and much more structurally sound. Once again, i refer you to press each knuckle combination against the wall and see how strong it feels and how much pressure you can generate/withstand from your structure alone

Go back and look at what I posted again. I never said the third knuckle could take impact. Hell, you can't connect with it with out at least landing the second knuckle also. What you get from the third knuckle's bio-mechanical _alignment_ in the hand is the ideal energry transfer path. This what provides the "on the wall" stability you are promoting in your wall test.

 

[ex0]

Go back and look at what I posted again. I never said the third knuckle could take impact. Hell, you can't connect with it with out at least landing the second knuckle also. What you get from the third knuckle's bio-mechanical _alignment_ in the hand is the ideal energry transfer path. This what provides the "on the wall" stability you are promoting in your wall test.

Sorry. I did not meant to infer that that is what you said. But like you just said now, connecting with one knuckle in real life is almost impossible(like you could theoretically connect just the middle knuckle with the nose, or temple etc, but perhaps i just have boney hands and knuckles that pop out more? dunno). Also, if i had to pick between connecting with the index and middle finger, or middle and ring finger(and you have to pick, because like you said, it's near impossible to connect with just the middle), i would most likely go for the latter, simply because it has better structure/alignment with the wrist, and subsequently, with your core. Also, more room for error with 2 knuckles on each side. Intentionally punching with anything else imo is just bad bareknuckle technique(although in a real fight, obviously you would rather survive and land anything, than to preserve your hand and lose/die).

 

[barnowl]

He's still raging because i schooled him on the same thing in the thread below, or he must be a boxer and think verticle fist and bottom 3 knuckles are 'kung fu' mumbo jumbo and that there is no science behind it.. but i guess he probably also doesn't know that that is how bareknuckle boxers from the golden age of pugilism actually fought in prizefights. He probably also thinks that gloves did not shape current boxing strikes(like horizontal fist, elbow up hooks), or that gloves don't protect the hand at all and are purely meant to only protect the other guy. I've had this conversation before, and there are always morons who try to deny physics or science and pass it off as 'traditional kung fu mumbo jumbo'.

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f11/a...martial-artist-hates-mma-1271457/index11.html

EDIT: If you guys really want to train bareknuckle, i suggest you do bareknuckle pushups(try do them with top 2 knuckles and see how far you get vs bottom 3. When you develop problems with your wrist however, don't blame me lol). They will strengthen your wrist, let you know how much your wrist can handle, the alignment required etc and also toughen up your knuckles/skin. Make sure to try both horizontal, and verticle, and spread your arms to different angles to get a good workout(hooks and straight line punches). Then go do bareknuckle bagwork(AFTER you understand the structure/physics behind it so you don't fuck up your wrist).

Good notes on the knuckle pushups. I still prefer top two knuckles for hard targets like skulls and bricks, that is just how I was trained for bare knuckle striking way back and it sticks. I will use vertical for certain things and in certain places.

 

[YukisHeart]

A lot of the stuff in this thread it far too high-minded. Are we seriously having a discussion on the relative merits and biomechanics of the vertical fist punch? That is not the sort of thing you should be mulling over when a fight actually breaks out and you are actually being hit.

The simple fact is, if push comes to shove (and shove comes to blow) and you're asking yourself whether or not the next punch you throw might hurt your hand you're in totally the wrong place mentally and will probably take a beating. You're also dreaming if you think a scrap with some idiot on a night club dance floor will involve anything more than the briefest flurry of punches before said idiot tries to tackle you or throw you in a headlock. (Also bear in mind these things seldom last even one minute.)

My advice therefore is get yourself a good Thai clinch to keep from being rushed down, crouch with your head low and throw knees to the side/ribs or solar plexus. (If you feel you can get the face though, by all means, go for it. Few things stop a guy in his tracks faster in a "real" fight than being smashed in the nose.) You'll find yourself at an advantage because most thug tough guys will try to keep their heads up and be maintaining eye contact with you or at least staying so they're looking down on your head - instinct, despite the fact it doesn't really make sense - and are fixated on punching you in the face and will not think to use their knees themselves.

One of two things will happen, probably. They'll try to jerk back out of the clinch so they can throw their haymakers, in which case momentum is on your side; press ahead. (The Burmese boxer's clinching headbutt is your friend - skip to 4:55. Note he does not "whip" his head forward though!) If not that they'll really try to bull forward to close the distance chest-to-chest and put you on your back/throw you in a headlock. If your clinch game is decent you should be able to stop this, but if the guy is very strong or bigger than you are it might be a problem. Shovel hooks (preferably to the liver) are the order of the day here - proably he will still insist on swinging for your face - but for God's sake learn to sprawl so he doesn't end up on top of you if he can carry you to the floor.

A final tip (observation, really) would be to keep in mind that it can be quite easy to break collar bones punching bare-knuckle, and that it's much easier (and safer, I guess) to land a solid shot on one than on someone's chin or nose if you really are scared to aim shots at anything on the skull. In the main, though, don't waste time over-analysing optimum "targets" mid-brawl or you'll be repeatedly clocked by the guy who just swings wildly.

 

[DS614]

People are over analyzing things. Street fights are bad.. if you have a fast enough jab.. jab their throat/nose and then run.

I never thought about punching someone in the collar bone, how funny. Liver.. kidneys.. throat, nose... groin, knees... those are the targets I would think about striking and then running away. Maybe take their wallet so the cops think it's just a street punk (no officer... I don't rob people, look at how white I am.... and my teeth, clearly I don't do methanphetimines)