Are you political?

[Harmonica]

So you think Al would have invaded Iraq? I don't.

Middle East policy is a much broader concept than relations with one country. It's probable that he wouldn't have invaded but general policy would remain the same. Someone call me when US withdraws it's troops from countries that don't want their presence. I'll wait on that exact same bench.

The ideological and cultural aspects of today's "professional" politicians is very cynical, to the point of being anti human.
I would give first hand examples of politicians I have had access to, but people would be allll.....source! bullshit! etc... but for many of us it would provoke nothing more than a shrug.

You don't have to tell me. Not that I had all that much personal experiences with politicians but I am realistic and analytical enough to deduce what kind of people they are by watching things from the sidelines. One doesn't have to read Machiavelli's "Prince" or even consult history to conclude what kind of people they are. All you have to do is watch them for a while and look for patterns.

 

[Aegon Spengler]

Middle East policy is a much broader concept than relations with one country. It's probable that he wouldn't have invaded but general policy would remain the same. Someone call me when US withdraws it's troops from countries that don't want their presence. I'll wait on that exact same bench.



You don't have to tell me. Not that I had all that much personal experiences with politicians but I am realistic and analytical enough to deduce what kind of people they are by watching things from the sidelines. One doesn't have to read Machiavelli's "Prince" or even consult history to conclude what kind of people they are. All you have to do is watch them for a while and look for patterns.

You said "Call me when voting makes a significant difference in, let's say, USA's Middle East policy."

Invading Iraq was extremely significant. According to the Lancet survey, around 700,000 people died as a direct result of the invasion. That is significant. Over a trillion U.S dollars were spent. That is significant.

In the current climate, you have Republicans all but declaring they want to bomb and invade Iran. The Democratic candidates are not saying that. They want to hold to the current deal in order to avoid a war. That is extremely significant.

If you want the U.S to pull it's troops out of middle eastern countries that don't want them there, you have to consciously and continually vote for anti-war candidates, and domestic protests have to be organized on the ground. Before the Iraq war there was a massive protest, around 100,000 people marched in the streets of New York: The U.S wasn't able to use anywhere near the kind of force they used in the early stages of the Vietnam war, where they used napalm to wipe out towns and villages. Domestic protest and political backlash limited the kind of force the U.S was able to use.

So how about you just admit you're wrong and fucking vote.

 

[Harmonica]

You said "Call me when voting makes a significant difference in, let's say, USA's Middle East policy."

Invading Iraq was extremely significant. According to the Lancet survey, around 700,000 people died as a direct result of the invasion. That is significant. Over a trillion U.S dollars were spent. That is significant.

In the current climate, you have Republicans all but declaring they want to bomb and invade Iran. The Democratic candidates are not saying that. They want to hold to the current deal in order to avoid a war. That is extremely significant.

If you want the U.S to pull it's troops out of middle eastern countries that don't want them there, you have to consciously and continually vote for anti-war candidates, protests have to be organized on the ground. Before the Iraq war there was a massive protest, around 100,000 people marched in the streets of New York and the U.S wasn't able to use anywhere near the kind of force they used in the ealy stages of the Vietnam war, wiping out towns and villages.

So how about you just admit you're wrong and fucking vote.

Except that those who propagate returning your troops home will never get their turn in the big seat because their campaigns won't be funded by big corporations, unlike campaigns of their political adversaries that dance to the corporate tune. You're extremely naive if you think that there is even a remote possibility to change US's external policies, solely due to the fact that your country's supremacy is heavily dependent on large military presence in the world. Like I said, your voting can make a difference in the domestic front, but worldwide - nah...

 

[Aegon Spengler]

Except that those who propagate returning your troops home will never get their turn in the big seat because their campaigns won't be funded by big corporations, unlike campaigns of their political adversaries that dance to the corporate tune. You're extremely naive if you think that there is even a remote possibility to change US's external policies, solely due to the fact that your country's supremacy is heavily dependent in large military presence in the world. Like I said, your voting can make a difference in the domestic front, but worldwide - nah...

So, I proved you wrong, period, end of story. You just can't or won't admit it because of your own hangups.

You allow the current situation to go on by refusing to act. Your cynicism is what allows those corporations and elite groups to control your country and dictate foreign policy. That's on you and don't ever forget it.

 

[Harmonica]

So, I proved you wrong, period, end of story. You just can't or won't admit it because of your own hangups.

You allow the current situation to go on by refusing to act. Your cynicism is what allows those corporations and elite groups to control your country and dictate foreign policy. That's on you and don't ever forget it.

No, what makes my country controllable is the fact that it's small and weak. It's got nothing to do with political activism.

Entertain whatever illusions you have. At the end of the day, you won't change a thing in the grand order of things. And you should thank god for that because if it were up to you, USA as world's sole superpower would swiftly cease to exist. You fail to comprehend that your way of life is possible only through aggressive foreign policies and not by pacifist ones.

 

[Aegon Spengler]

No, what makes my country controllable is the fact that it's small and weak. It's got nothing to do with political activism.

Entertain whatever illusions you have. At the end of the day, you won't change a thing in the grand order of things. And you should thank god for that because if it were up to you, USA as world's sole superpower would swiftly cease to exist. You fail to comprehend that your way of life is possible only through aggressive foreign policies and not by pacifist ones.

You are hilarious. You're just another stubborn idiot who won't listen to anyone but himself.

You said voting doesn't make a significant difference in U.S middle east policy. WRONG

You use vague terms like "grand order of things" to make your point which is ridiculous.

The only thing that has ever changed anything for the better, anywhere, ever, (in the grand or the small order) are large groups of like minded people who make a concentrated effort for several years, protesting, committing themselves, being brave and unapologetic. That is a historic fact. It takes a long time but change has proven to be possible. Concentrations of power are not invulnerable. Cynicism only helps them.

The U.S.A as the "world's sole superpower" doesn't mean much for homeless Americans, or Americans on food stamps etc. It's a concentration of power that is exploiting people internationally and domestically, but the domestic population has the best chance of taking control of that situation.

It is not impossible to introduce peaceful international aid plans like The Marshal Plan in order to build up infrastructure and promote trade and commerce. Violence begets more violence. We can slowly and surely make progress in terms of disarmament and peaceful co existence if we make real efforts in that direction. There are two choices - you can fall prey to cynicism and allow it to make you impotent, or you can look to the small rays of hope that do exist and try to make them shine a little brighter. The choice of which to do is a pretty easy one.

 

[Harmonica]

You are hilarious. You're just another stubborn idiot who won't listen to anyone but himself.

You said voting doesn't make a significant difference in U.S middle east policy. WRONG

You use vague terms like "grand order of things" to make your point which is ridiculous.

The only thing that has ever changed anything for the better, anywhere, ever, (in the grand or the small order) are large groups of like minded people who make a concentrated effort for several years, protesting, committing themselves, being brave and unapologetic. That is a historic fact. It takes a long time but change has proven to be possible. Concentrations of power are not invulnerable. Cynicism only helps them.

The U.S.A as the "world's sole superpower" doesn't mean much for homeless Americans, or Americans on food stamps etc. It's a concentration of power that is exploiting people internationally and domestically, but the domestic population has the best chance of taking control of that situation.

It is not impossible to introduce peaceful international aid plans like The Marshal Plan in order to build up infrastructure and promote trade and commerce. Violence begets more violence. We can slowly and surely make progress in terms of disarmament and peaceful co existence if we make real efforts in that direction. There are two choices - you can fall prey to cynicism and allow it to make you impotent, or you can look to the small rays of hope that do exist and try to make them shine a little brighter. The choice of which to do is a pretty easy one.

You got a little too emotional there. And no, the USA's Middle East policy will not be changed as long as you people are dependent on oil that comes from that part of the world. You woke up this morning, sat in your car, drove to the gas station and poured gallons that are cheap due to USA's aggressive policies. It is you who are fueling corporate power, whether you want it or not. I am not even blaming you, I am merely stating a fact. If the majority of Americans refused to buy oil that came into your possession as prize of your plunders, your country wouldn't be able to function properly. At least not at this level at which it is functioning now. Things were set in motion a long time ago and you're all a part of the mechanism. To think that you can change that by electing some guy who will simply bring your troops home shows your lack of understanding the inseparability of your standard of living, as well as your way of life in general, and your foreign policies that bring about death and destruction to others and luxury and affluence to your own lands.

So, as I already said - entertain illusions that you've embarked on some holy crusade to bring justice and stability to the world. The reality of the situation is that you are only perpetuating what's already there.

Real change doesn't come through politics but through other means. Not that you would understand it, though.