Are weight dips more effective for hypertrophy than dumbbells?

[spacetime]

Um, all of it[/QUOTE

No way

 

[deadshot138]

If you're holding yourself off the ground completely and you do a dip, you are indeed supporting all of your bodyweight

 

[spacetime]

If your goal is optimal muscle hypertrophy... do dumbbell presses correctly, laying shoulder raises and laying or decline dumbbel tricep extensions. Those will make your chest, tris and shoulder bigger than dips ever will. Dips are great in a pinch, but it depends on your goals.

The progress as a newbie with dumbbells is way slower since you can't really use heavy ones, even once. You're arms aren't strong enough. Weight Dips you can use parts of your own weight from the get-go

 

[spacetime]

If you're holding yourself off the ground completely and you do a dip, you are indeed supporting all of your bodyweight

Doesn't feel like it. Are you saying that the resistance feels that much different compared to the bench due to my superior body position?

 

[HitmanNO.1]

The progress as a newbie with dumbbells is way slower since you can't really use heavy ones, even once. You're arms aren't strong enough. Weight Dips you can use parts of your own weight from the get-go

I get what you are saying... but again, heavy is relative. If you are a newbie 40lbs could be HEAVY, doesnt matter what the weight is... whether it is dips or a 40lbs dumbbell. It has to do with the angle and the relation of the strength/resistance curve. If you are doing the right movement with solid form, that is all you need to focus on. Again, if you are trying to be the king at weighted dips... do dips. If you are trying to build strong wide shoulders, strong triceps and a strong big chest... dips dont do either of those things particularly well. It is a paradigm shift for most, but biomechanically it is true. Im not here to piss on anyone's parade, but it i based on your goals. Getting stronger doesnt always mean lifting heavier weight... like I said it is movement specific and what you are trying to get out of your training

 

[spacetime]

I get what you are saying... but again, heavy is relative. If you are a newbie 40lbs could be HEAVY, doesnt matter what the weight is... whether it is dips or a 40lbs dumbbell. It has to do with the angle and the relation of the strength/resistance curve. If you are doing the right movement with solid form, that is all you need to focus on. Again, if you are trying to be the king at weighted dips... do dips. If you are trying to build strong wide shoulders, strong triceps and a strong big chest... dips dont do either of those things particularly well. It is a paradigm shift for most, but biomechanically it is true. Im not here to piss on anyone's parade, but it i based on your goals. Getting stronger doesnt always mean lifting heavier weight... like I said it is movement specific and what you are trying to get out of your training

I'm looking to gain hypertrophy, not strength.

 

[spacetime]

If you are a newbie 40lbs could be HEAVY,

Lol, 40lbs is too heavy. Not even Arnold used that much

https://www.frankzane.com/oak-iron-frank-zane-talks-training-arnold/

Surprisingly, Arnold didn’t use very heavy weights for a guy his size, but his form was great and he really knew how to isolate his muscles. He’d do curls with only 35-pound dumbbells, but because his form was so great and he’d squeeze each and every repetition, he got great results.

 

[HitmanNO.1]

I'm looking to gain hypertrophy, not strength.

Cool, so there are many ways to do this. The standard way, and the optimal way. I would look into the work of Doug Brignole. Again, this is for hypertrophy training... so definitely a more bodybuilding type approach as you eluded to. If specifically gaining muscular size if your goal, I recommend his book The Physics of Fitness, gamechanger for me. He breaks down using objective science (physics, biomechanics) why certain movements work and why some are optimal/suboptimal.

For example... his thoughts on the Dip:

 

[spacetime]

Cool, so there are many ways to do this. The standard way, and the optimal way. I would look into the work of Doug Brignole. Again, this is for hypertrophy training... so definitely a more bodybuilding type approach as you eluded to. If specifically gaining muscular size if your goal, I recommend his book The Physics of Fitness, gamechanger for me. He breaks down using objective science (physics, biomechanics) why certain movements work and why some are optimal/suboptimal.

For example... his thoughts on the Dip:

See that's the problem with the internet and coaching. You find different sources saying polar opposite things and there's no way to know who is to be trusted. It's very frustrating

 

[boingyman]

TS this you?

 

[HitmanNO.1]

See that's the problem with the internet and coaching. You find different sources saying polar opposite things and there's no way to know who is to be trusted. It's very frustrating

Yea I hear ya... but the thing is what I am telling you isnt an opinion or a theory... it is based on physics and biomechanics and laws of gravity. The difference is "does this work" vs "is this optimal." CAN you build a big chest benching? YES. Is it optimal? No. My take is show me the actual data, strip as much opinion as you can, and Im in. It all makes perfect sense. For me personally, did I grow a wide back and good structure doing weight pullups for years, YES. Was that optimal? No... how do I know? I started doing movements more biomechanically aligned and saw far better results I never saw before all while working out with lighter weights and recovering better

 

[DEVILsSON]

I'm looking to gain hypertrophy, not strength.

You may want to check out bodybuilding . com forums to get advice more tailored to your goals. This forum is more geared towards gaining athletic attributes (strength/power/speed/etc) and improving performance.

Generally speaking you'll be using higher reps and higher volume. You may choose to also use various bodybuilding approaches(e.g. drop sets, supersets, several exercises per body part, slower rep tempos, etc) to maximize muscle gains.

I think you're on to something with weighted dips probably being more popular several decades ago.

 

[HitmanNO.1]

Lol, 40lbs is too heavy. Not even Arnold used that much

https://www.frankzane.com/oak-iron-frank-zane-talks-training-arnold/

Surprisingly, Arnold didn’t use very heavy weights for a guy his size, but his form was great and he really knew how to isolate his muscles. He’d do curls with only 35-pound dumbbells, but because his form was so great and he’d squeeze each and every repetition, he got great results.

I think you are confusing people with your post. Dumbbells curls and Dips DO NOT work the same muscles. It doesnt make sense what you are asking. When I commented I was referring to 40lbs for something like a dumbbell press. I agree... 40lb dumbbells for curls... not necessary. I read the same thing about Arnie and folks like Tom Platz. As another poster pointed out, your questions are more bodybuilding related, not the ideal place for these questions. I agree... 25-35 lbs is plenty for curls if that is what you want to do

 

[spacetime]

I think you are confusing people with your post. Dumbbells curls and Dips DO NOT work the same muscles.

I never said they do.

 

[spacetime]

As another poster pointed out, your questions are more bodybuilding related, not the ideal place for these questions. I agree... 25-35 lbs is plenty for curls if that is what you want to do

I got banned on that forum

 

[spacetime]

You may want to check out bodybuilding . com forums to get advice more tailored to your goals. This forum is more geared towards gaining athletic attributes (strength/power/speed/etc) and improving performance.

Generally speaking you'll be using higher reps and higher volume. You may choose to also use various bodybuilding approaches(e.g. drop sets, supersets, several exercises per body part, slower rep tempos, etc) to maximize muscle gains.

I think you're on to something with weighted dips probably being more popular several decades ago.

I am banned on that forum. Not much to do in these COVID-19 times but I'm trying to get started

 

[belph]

I got banned on that forum

Homie, you can't just make another account?

 

[ChickenBrother]

If you're holding yourself off the ground completely and you do a dip, you are indeed supporting all of your bodyweight

Doesn't feel like it. Are you saying that the resistance feels that much different compared to the bench due to my superior body position?

As counter-intuitive as it may sound, I don't think any type of bodyweight press offers equivalent resistance to your full bodyweight on say, a barbell.

Regular push ups for example are much easier than benching your full bodyweight on a barbell. But that's partially because your feet are bearing some of the weight.

But in exercises like dips or handstand push ups, I can do significantly more reps than I can with my bodyweight loaded on a barbell for decline press or seated military press. At my strongest I could do 18 handstand push ups occasionally touching the wall for balance, but I couldn't even do one rep of my bodyweight in any form of overhead press.

 

[deadshot138]

Doesn't feel like it. Are you saying that the resistance feels that much different compared to the bench due to my superior body position?

The angle makes it easier than a bench press.

 

[vision1]

As counter-intuitive as it may sound, I don't think any type of bodyweight press offers equivalent resistance to your full bodyweight on say, a barbell.

Regular push ups for example are much easier than benching your full bodyweight on a barbell. But that's partially because your feet are bearing some of the weight.

But in exercises like dips or handstand push ups, I can do significantly more reps than I can with my bodyweight loaded on a barbell for decline press or seated military press. At my strongest I could do 18 handstand push ups occasionally touching the wall for balance, but I couldn't even do one rep of my bodyweight in any form of overhead press.

Maybe the +/- weight of your arms makes all the difference?

I would think a bench to pushup comparable number would be:
Get into a pushup position with your hands on a weight scale.
Take that number and subtract weight of your arms (no idea how to calculate that).
Result should be equivalent weight on the bench.