Are Today's HWs Really Better than Yesteryear's?

[NoBiasJustMMA]

prime cro cop got his head knocked to mars by a gatekeeper. That's a fact.
But srsly, Imo this generation of hws is better but they are not better by a huge margin. Jds and Cain are fighters that would beat any guy from pride but besides these two it would be a total toss between them all. Also i have to say that the pride hw division of 2001-06 wasn't immensely better than the ufc's. It was better, for sure, but only because of Fedor. Put him aside and It would be very competitive too. Just look how Mur tooled Nogueira twice, he just got his number.

It was much better in Pride not because of Fedor but because they had more high quality guys, other than Sylvia, Mir and Arlovski the UFC's HW division was much much worse. You didn't really have a huge drop off in the Pride HW division until like the 7th, 8th or even 9th guy.

 

[dropshot001]

they are more well rounded and under the current rules would win fights with the past heavyweights. in terms of putting on entertaining fights, i would take past heavyweights 100% of the time

 

[Nicslagan]

All the fighters now are better than the ones years ago. The more popular MMA gets the bigger pool of people there are that will compete. They will be even better and more talented in the future. You will see more fighters that have top notch everything.

 

[Peregrine01]

Wasn't it an unintended eye poke that gave him the win against Barnett in the GP? And btw, CC had Barnetts number when they fought.

Don't think it was an eye poke - he just socked Barnett's eye hard enough that he broke his orbital.

I don't think CC really had Barnett's number anyway, although he was certainly a very tough match-up. Barnett popped his shoulder in one of the other three fights. The one that ended up in a decision was pretty competitive.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Cro Cop, Big Nog, and Fedor in their 05 form would do just fine in today's HW division. Surprisingly I think Fedor would have a tougher time than the other two despite being better fighters than they are because he is undersized but I would be surprised if he didn't at least make it into the top 5.

I do think that prime or no prime Bigfoot is just a bad match up for Fedor but he's probably the lowest ranked guy I would favor over Fedor.

 

[frigger]

Hunt obviously is doing fairly well. His only ufc loss is to the #2 guy.

 

[klataubarada]

Overall todays HW's are better. That is to say the top 25 HW's today would stack up well against the top 25 10 years ago.

My money would still be on Fedor to take on the best of today, but he was a clear outlier. The talent pool of HW's today is just to large relative to 10 years ago. Training techniques strat etc. have also evolved over the years.

 

[tenniswhiz]

Yea, you can't just compare the top 5 from many years ago with today.
How does a guy around #15 or #20 from back then compare with the same from now?
This isn't a Fedor vs Cain thread.

 

[C0NCH3TO]

It was much better in Pride not because of Fedor but because they had more high quality guys, other than Sylvia, Mir and Arlovski the UFC's HW division was much much worse. You didn't really have a huge drop off in the Pride HW division until like the 7th, 8th or even 9th guy.

Cro cop was the man in pride. Only Nog and Fedor were ahead of him and that fight with nogueira was a fucking miracle that Nog pulled out of nowhere. Look how he got handed in the ufc. And no, i dont care how many people tell me that his prime was until 2004 lo. Come on man. I'm not saying he was at the very peak of his career but he was 32-33. Not bad at all. Nogueira would have gone to the ground with Mir even if they fought 7 years ago GUARANTEED. And you know who's got the better jitz. Buy hey, we will never get to know, maybe you are right, maybe not. I'm just throwing my opinion about it. Better? absolutely. Much better? I don't think so.

 

[C0NCH3TO]

Yea, you can't just compare the top 5 from many years ago with today.
How does a guy around #15 or #20 from back then compare with the same from now?
This isn't a Fedor vs Cain thread.

it would be idiotic to do that. I am a huge believer in the evolution of the sport. Even in other sports, you see the development in nutrition, training ,etc. And you see bigger, stronger, faster athletes coming out every year. That added to the fact that mma is such a young sport. Lol. If mma keeps going strong for the next years you will see guys with football-basketball athleticism hitting mma.

 

[Mayor]

Of course they're not any better. FFS, Mark Hunt is a top 10 HW today. Also in the top 10 or close to it are Werdum, Bigfoot, Overeem, Mir, Big/Old Nog, Barnett, and a number of other guys who have been fighting since "yesteryear." Cain and JDS are very good, but let's not act like they're light years ahead of prime Fedor and Cro Cop.

Hell, of the UFC's top half of their HW roster, what, half of them were fighting 7-8+ years ago?

Guys like Kongo, Schaub, Mitrione have flirted with top-10 status in the last few years. They're not better than Big Nog was in Pride. Hell, they're arguably not any better than a prime Heath Herring.

 

[Peregrine01]

Cro cop was the man in pride. Only Nog and Fedor were ahead of him and that fight with nogueira was a fucking miracle that Nog pulled out of nowhere. Look how he got handed in the ufc. And no, i dont care how many people tell me that his prime was until 2004 lol. Come on man. I'm not saying he was at the very peak of his career but he was 32-33. Not bad at all. We will never get to know, maybe you are right, maybe not. I'm just throwing my opinion about it. Better? absolutely. Much better? I don't think so.

By the time he lost to Gonzaga, CC was 34 and had 29 MMA fights and 23 K-1 fights for a total of 52 pro fights.

By the time Roy Jones Jr. was 34, he was just starting on a 3-fight losing streak that saw him brutally knocked out twice and losing another in a lopsided decision. Prior to that, he had been undefeated in 50 fights, minus a dq, for 15 years.

Now, would anyone in their right minds claim that RJJ was the exact same fighter at 34 as he was when he was 25 and in the middle of his unbeaten streak? Would they say that the reason why he fell off so suddenly was that the sport of boxing caught up with him?

Fighters that rely on speed, explosiveness and reflexes like RJJ, CC and now possibly Anderson are vulnerable to huge drop-offs when these gifts leave them with age. In fighting, just that split second of reaction time can be the difference between god-like and good - and good fighters get caught all the time.

 

[Mayor]

You don't need to train in something Since childhood to be the best in it.

One guy could train mma since he was 5 and still not be as good as someone who was just a wrestler til 3 years ago. It's all about natural talent

Yep, mostly true. That's why a guy like Jon Jones can get into the sport, win every fight, and be world champ after fighting pro for just a few years. Sure, he was already a good (not elite) wrestler, but it's not like it took him a decade to cross-train in boxing and BJJ. That's why when people talk about the "new breed" and guys who grew up training in all areas, it's mostly crap.

Hell, you could throw a prime Chuck into today's UFC and he'd sprawl-and-brawl his way to the top five, just like he did back in the day. I'd favor Bones, Gustaffson, and Machida over him, and that's it.

 

[Peregrine01]

it would be idiotic to do that. I am a huge believer in the evolution of the sport. Even in other sports, you see the development in nutrition, training ,etc. And you see bigger, stronger, faster athletes coming out every year. That added to the fact that mma is such a young sport. Lol. If mma keeps going strong for the next years you will see guys with football-basketball athleticism hitting mma.

Hate to break it to you, but the future of MMA is still gonna come in the form of wrestlers and grapplers. These guys don't have any professional outlet other than MMA while the best basketball and football players will continue to go into the NBA or the NFL (where they get paid a shit load more).

Maybe some of the basketball and football players who aren't good enough to make it pro in their respective sports will try their hand in MMA, but by that time they would've had no serious training in a martial art and will be competing against those who do.

 

[Flexwave2003]

If some of you think god waved his magic stick and has made the athletes of today bigger, stronger and faster in mixed martial arts you're wrong. What may be the case however is that as the sports popularity has grown, more higher caliber athletes have gravitated towards competing.

Cain has an excellent wrestling base, but he is not a better athlete than some of the NCAA champions of yester year. We've seen some very good wrestlers in the sport in the past, very high caliber guys, the only thing that has really changed is the stage which these guys have to compete now and the gyms which are dedicated to training these guys to do it.

 

[MikeyLan]

I don't think there's a big difference.

JDS and CroCop are comparable.

Fedor and Cain are comparable (except Cain needs to show more submission ability).

 

[NBKondit**]

The Fedor era had superior HWs overall for sure

Cain
JDS
DC
Werdum
Barney
Browne
Bigfoot
Reem
Hunt
Mir
Stipe

In Fedors era u had

Fedor
Big Nog
Cro Cop
Barney
Randy
Coleman
Igor
Sergei
Arlovski
Semmy
Sylvia
Rizzo
Randleman
Herring
Werdum
Reem
Hunt

 

[C0NCH3TO]

Hate to break it to you, but the future of MMA is still gonna come in the form of wrestlers and grapplers. These guys don't have any professional outlet other than MMA while the best basketball and football players will continue to go into the NBA or the NFL (where they get paid a shit load more).

Maybe some of the basketball and football players who aren't good enough to make it pro in their respective sports will try their hand in MMA, but by that time they would've had no serious training in a martial art and will be competing against those who do.

aha! you are getting me wrong then. I never said that guys that are meant to be in the nfl or nba will choose to go to the ufc. I said that guys as athletic as the guys from the nfl or nba will be seen in mma. Guys as big, fast, strong,etc. That doesn't mean that they would be great at basketball or football. It takes dexterity and talent in a particular sport to excel in it. You just don't go out there and become great in basketball, you just don't go out there and become an nba player only because you are a giraffe. You need to practice that sport for many years and possibly born with that natural talent. Maybe in football is slightly different, that's why i always bashed it to death, compared to other sports it's mostly athleticism what's needed and not technique. But still , i hope you got my point.

 

[Redhawks100]

Lol, no.

You think Don Frye would beat Travis Browne? You think Barnett would beat JDS? You think Coleman would beat Cain? You think Herring would even beat Struve? Come on, son.

 

[Flexwave2003]

Lol, no.

You think Don Frye would beat Travis Browne? You think Barnett would beat JDS? You think Coleman would beat Cain? You think Herring would even beat Struve? Come on, son.

Don Frye was not a natural heavyweight like Travis Browne. Yes, I am aware Frye became Captain America during his career but if you watch his earlier fights he looked like a much different fighter. Do I think Barnett could beat JDS? Its within the realm of possibility, yes. Its a fight I would like to see for sure.

Could Coleman beat Cain? Lets take Cain back to Colemans youthful, prime days, and allow head butts and you've got one hell of a fight right there.

Heath Herring is/was a fucking beast dude. He could be competitive with Struve, surely. As to who would win, that is why they fight. To find out. But he's not competed in years and may never return.