Are people discrediting Alexander Gus too quickly?

[FrontNakedChoke]

No, he'd never felt him fight.

Sounds like a shitty excuse.

 

[BSquared]

I think Jones was really 70% when he fought Gus.

DC via murder

Yeah, too lazy to look for it, but didn't Brian Stann basically admit that Jones barely even trained for that fight?

 

[Krouget]

Shogun and Thiago Silva are not legit wins?

Legit in the sense that he officially won both of them, yes. He also took both guys to decision. The Shogun fight (his best win nearly three years removed), wasn't anything I'd write home about. Chael tapped Shogun in the first, in his very next fight...that was more impressive.

1. Gus TDD was good against Jones, and Jones outwresteled DC (but that was gassed DC)

Which goes to my point: "He then lost, and nearly two years later, we're still left to milk the competitiveness of that fight as his greatest achievement."

When forced to prop up Gus' career on the merits of his actual wins, how deep does the conversation really get?

The problem with Gus is that he's not active fighter, he should fight more and people won't underestimate him

I agree with you, but he also needs to start winning fights against top, relevant opponents. Upon reentering the UFC, AJ managed to finish three top 10 (5?) guys, within a single year. Even Bader has managed a top 5 win in the same time.

 

[DizzyYeahYeah]

What's the difference between Rumble and DC?

DC hits hard but his wrestling is way better Rumbles. DC also has a granite chin.

Gus fans are underestimating the #2 LHW (behinds Jones). DC can be the #2 LHW OAT as long as Jones doesn't come back any time soon.

 

[Melas Chasma]

Thanks :wink:

Jones has said himself he underestimated him. MMA fans did too, including me.

I don't believe Gus truly understood how explosive and powerful Rumble was until he was in there with him.

I'm a Gus fan, but this is just what I think.

Im sure he expected to dominate Gus and win convincingly, just like every confident fighter should feel before the fight. But he didnt underestimate Gustafsson in a sense that he wasnt motivated to train or didnt take Gustafsson seriously as an opponent. That would be just silly to assume on so many levels. Its just an excuse which was made after the fight when Jones and his fans fully expectedly felt need to find reasons why the fight was so close.

Im 100% sure they knew at Jackson`s Gustafsson was going to be a handfull. I agree in a sense that they probably didnt expected him to be THAT good so soon, I believe their thought process was they wanted to face him sooner rather than later.

 

[runnpray]

Even Bader has managed a top 5 win in the same time.

and ROBBED of a title shot vs. DC

 

[Melas Chasma]

Prior to Jones, he really wasn't on the map, and his greatest claim to that fight was being that other guy with long reach.

Only if you werent payed any attention to his actual skill set at the time.

He then lost, and nearly two years later, we're still left to milk the competitiveness of that fight as his greatest achievement. Between then and now, he picked up one fringe win, then faced a period of inactivity, where they further milked his loss to Jones, in order to keep him relevant.

You make it sound like it is wrong to consider his performance against Jones relevant this long, because it was a loss. That means you are valuing his performance based on what numbers a 3 man draw on their papers, not what actually happened in the fight. Thats like some 12 year old level of reasoning and thats the reason you and so many others fail to see Gustafsson`s level as a fighter objectively.

Gus can be a solid striker when allowed to implement his boxing, but as we saw with AJ, that doesn't always happen. I think Gus is overmatched walking into this one, and if DC commits to his wrestling, aggression, and varied attack, I see him earning the victory.

Do you have any credible reasons to believe Gustafsson is overmatched against Cormier? Because nothing you said in your post covers it.

 

[Krouget]

Only if you werent payed any attention to his actual skill set at the time.

You could have paid all the attention you wanted to, he didn't have the resume going into the fight, the UFC promoted his chances in the fight based on reach, and the betting odds heavily coincided with this (the fight had some of the most lopsided odds since Jones-Sonnen). Gus was billed as the guy to finally match Jones for his reach advantage, and he shocked many with how competitive it was, for a reason-- because going in, nobody (or few) thought the night would unfold the way it did.

From the first source: "If Gustafsson tries to press the pace against the champion, his poor striking defense represents a big and exploitable hole in his armor against a longer and more precise striker like Jones."

Comments like the above were the types of analysis focused on Gus, at the time. And that's considering his boxing is the most polished aspect of his game.

You make it sound like it is wrong to consider his performance against Jones relevant this long, because it was a loss. That means you are valuing his performance based on what numbers a 3 man draw on their papers, not what actually happened in the fight. Thats like some 12 year old level of reasoning and thats the reason you and so many others fail to see Gustafsson`s level as a fighter objectively.

I make it sound like that, because the topic of the thread asks the question "are we discrediting Gus too quickly". When we're still citing a fight that's nearly two years removed, I think the answer is no, not quickly enough.

I valued his performance back when it was relevant, but in the near two years that have passed, since, what have we seen? When we discuss the rest of the division, as I stated previously, we're able to see what AJ (and Bader, to lesser degree) came in and did in a shorter period of time. When I see more active guys putting together streaks and top wins, they earn more credibility. When I see the other guy demanding "nothing less than a title shot" and no big recent performances to sell himself, he loses credibility. That's not basing an opinion on three judges cards, that's basing an opinion on reality and current events.

If anything, you're overvaluing and overextending his performance in that one fight, by attaching it to accomplishments Jones has since made. I understand why the UFC (being a promotion) would do it, but if you want to build the case that Gus is deserving of more credit than I'm giving him, then argue the point based on something he's actually accomplished.

Do you have any credible reasons to believe Gustafsson is overmatched against Cormier? Because nothing you said in your post covers it.

This is a weird question; how are you defining a "credible reason"? Because unless you're of the idea that DC has no place at his current ranking, just about any reason I post for him being a threat to Gus, is "credible".

I think what you mean, is can I give a reason I think DC will win, that will convince you? My answer to that is, who gives... You opened your response with the less-than-credible reasoning "pay attention to his actual skillset". I'll exert as much effort and say "pay attention to DC's actual skillset".

 

[MagnusGOAT]

Gus will do better than AJ did for sure, it will be a competitive fight, win or lose.