archie moore says ali lack of boxing skill/discipline resulted in his damage

Discussion in 'Boxing Discussion' started by devante, Jun 9, 2008.

  1. devante

    devante Silver Belt

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    archie moore stated that the reason ali had so much damage is because he refused to learn how to box correctly; he said that ali wanted to be like ray robinson and wouldn't dedicate himself to the process of learning the finer points of the craft...which led to him having to depend on his heart...chin..durability to carry him when his legs/exp/reaction/handspeed/ mobility failed him

    he said that ali claimed to not fight into his old age so he wouldn't need to learn the tricks of the trade

    this was said in the life and times of muhammed ali by thomas hauser

    ali trained w/archie moore for a period of time; but left cus moore expected ali to fall in line and ali didn't want to.

    i think ali is a grreat fighter; BUT tech i never thought he was one of the finer boxers, i feel that archie moore supports this idea, what is your opinion/thought
     
  2. Seano

    Seano Hands of bone

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    Ali did get hit alot. Boxing is about not being hit.

    I don't know, his footwork was pretty damn good. Good combos, an excellent jab...

    I guess a guy who got hit as much as Ali, you have to question his movement and guard I guess. Couple thqat with the rope a dope stategy... rope a dope isn't really good technical boxing is it?
     
  3. Hammer Time

    Hammer Time Brown Belt

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    i heard something of the sort but i obviously dont know the truth. archie moore being one of the all time greats knows the game and i tend to beleive what he'd say. ali stopped an old archie moore when ali was a young up and comer
     
  4. Seano

    Seano Hands of bone

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    Alis problems probably had much to do with fighting too long. Thinking about this thread, Cassius Clay was fantastic. Ali that fought Holmes and Berbick.... well you know.
     
  5. devante

    devante Silver Belt

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    moore said when he was training him he said that he wanted to teach him the tricks so as he got older and faded, even if he loss he wouldnt get BEAT up; he wouldn't take those DAMAGING shots..he would just lose.


    Ali said i won't be around that long, he was and that lack of prep cost him; i think ali great fight, but not very good boxer TECH...he made alot of mistakes but his natural ability allowed him to overcome.
     
  6. daimyo

    daimyo UnBånned

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    Hit a lot? Yes, but only later in his career. The early days he was untouchable. Once he lost his legs/movement & speed/reflexes he re-engineered his game.

    Rope-a-dope was simply an expression of this lost talent.
     
  7. devante

    devante Silver Belt

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    that is what moore was speaking on, as those skills fade if u learn the tricks, finer points u won't lose or u won't get beaten up on the way to losign or winning like ali did when he fought holmes-foreman-frazier-etc
     
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  8. Mr.pain

    Mr.pain Brown Belt

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    I remember reading the book "Ghost of Manila" where it stated that Ali was sort of a masochist, in that he actually enjoyed the pain and it gave him gratification.
     
  9. Straw_Dog

    Straw_Dog Purple Belt

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    As others said...he adapted his game when his speed left to be able to take punishment. He took a ton of damage sparring, in an attempt to acclimate to it. To a degree it worked, but it took it's toll in the long run.
     
  10. Seano

    Seano Hands of bone

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    Even earlier in his career at times. How late are we talking here? Ali/Frazier 1 late?
     
  11. daimyo

    daimyo UnBånned

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    Yeah,

    Before the exodus pre '70s. Those 3 years away from the ring left him with nothing. He was simply and exhibition fighter at that stage. Yet impressively, he brought the fans some of the best fights in the golden era.

    His durability allowed him this.

    Moore was likely correct. With that, because Ali was so "strong" hearted/willed, he could take more than the average; possibly leading to his degradation.
     
  12. TOUBABO KOOMI

    TOUBABO KOOMI Purple Belt

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    he was awesome at everything besides keeping his guard up (he tried to rely on his legs too much IMO) and lateral movement, but what fighter doesnt have a flaw?
     
  13. LordFarthing

    LordFarthing Green Belt

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    Henry Cooper knocked him out in 1963 and Ali's corner cheated three different ways to get him back in, each should've led to a disqualification. Ali also lost to Doug Jones early in his career but the judges gifted Ali the win. He was never untouchable.
     
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  14. Sunfish

    Sunfish Martinez Belt

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    Are you expecting a reply from his post in 2008?
     
  15. Marc A

    Marc A Being broke is being dishonest

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    informative , interesting how nostalga rewrites the past
     
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  16. Seano

    Seano Hands of bone

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    I don't agree that lack of skill was the issue. Ali was slick as shit when he wanted to be. Discipline, sure. He liked toying with guys sometimes and that often meant him absorbing a lot of punches. Either as a strategy, like vs Foreman or for more personal reasons, like vs Frazier.
     
  17. Seano

    Seano Hands of bone

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    To be fair, that fight probably would have been stopped today and the actions that Ali's corner has admitted to multiple times would result in DQ in any era.
     
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  18. 1122

    1122 Green Belt

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    How many boxers ended up with Parkinsons? I can only think of 2 & I follow the sport very closely.

    If you ask me, he could have just gotten Parkinsons & it didn't have anything to do with boxing. Most boxers get brain damage but that usually results in punch drunkness.
     
  19. Sunfish

    Sunfish Martinez Belt

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    I read they did a study on a few former boxers about Parkinson's and the majority had it, and the study was all on former champions. If you're talking about two I guess you mean Ali and roach.
     
  20. 1122

    1122 Green Belt

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    Who are these other boxers with Parkinsons though? I'm genuinely curious & would like to hear some other names besides Roach & Ali for once.
     

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