Approaching Ground Fighting

[Rinksterk**]

I think one reason I, and some other school members included, am slow at improving ground work, is because the way my instructor teaches. When when I firsted started out, I learned a few takedowns such as the shoulder throw and hip-throws before being thrown out on the mat with more experienced guys. The classes were 90% sparring and My instructor would SOMETIMES teach us new techniques. I think this was fine with me, as I got work extensively on few throws such as the shoulder-throw, which is my bread and butter.

But, when we finally got into ground work, he did the same thing. He taught me the basic positions like side mount, guard, north south, and the armbar and RNC. It was like a crash course into goundfighting. Then he told me to roll with another guy in the same class. We were both like, "what the hell are we doing?" I'm getting better these days as I am SLOWLY learning new submissions and rolling with more experienced guys, sometimes with wrestlers.

Do BJJ schools do the same thing? Or do yall take a different approach? Like drilling passing the guard extensively one day, and applying an armbar the next? I would like to know an effective way of teaching groundfighting as I am planning to teach judo at my college.

 

[thewaterchapter]

dude... obviously find a new school.

BJJ schools drill groundwork extensively. relson usually teaches the upper level classes by just asking 'what do you guys want to work on.' then someone will say 'im having trouble with guys breaking my closed gaurd..' or 'how do you escape from this position when only one hook is in.' you know specific questions... then hell answer all of them.

he runs the whitebelt class differently.... more structured. showing techniques, then having the students drill them. then correcting their mistakes, then showing another technique. repeat.

if you feel overwhelmed, and so does the rest of your class... then move on man. a good instructor should have GOOD technique first and foremost... then know how to teach it effectively. you can possibly be wasting a large amount of your crucial foundational learning, by being taught horrible technique. hope this helped.

 

[scorcho]

I agree. Rolling does not really benefit you all that much if you don't have the basics.

 

[Sub Dude]

In my BJJ school, out of a two hour class, we spend about 1 1/5 hrs. drilling usually 2, maybe 3 techniques.....then the last 30 mins is usually rolling or guard pass drills, etc.

 

[Goshinjitsu]

Hopefully you can find a new school.

 

[Brendon Katz]

iv got to say i disagree with everybody. a few questions first .
are you rolling with guys with more experience every session? (rolling with guys with more experience will show you what jits is supposed to be like)
are you comfortable with your shoulder throws and hip throws? (as you say , 90% sparring , 10% tech. if your happy with those two....)

what you need to do when your doing jits:
1) dominate position . get from side control to half-guard to gaurd to mount etc
2) submission. you know the bread and butter submissions , try and do them against a resisting opponent.

you can know a thousand techniques , they are worth nothing if you cant do them against a resisting opponent. and the opposite is also true , you can know two techniques and thats all you need if you can pull them off against a resisting opponent.

 

[bej0520]

In my BJJ school, out of a two hour class, we spend about 1 1/5 hrs. drilling usually 2, maybe 3 techniques.....then the last 30 mins is usually rolling or guard pass drills, etc.

Same here. We do 3 new techniques each week and incorporate a lot of the stuff we already learned in each class too. So we keep learning new techniques while we refresh ones we already learned. The instructors will come and work one on one with you if you aren't getting it. I really benefit from this method of teaching.

 

[Darwinist]

To me the Straight Blast Gym method of teaching (the I-method) is far and away the best method of teaching BJJ, simply because it´s developed on a solid educational framework that is also useful in teaching most other skills that have nothing to do with grappling. It´s heavily based on a book called "Teaching as a subversive activity".

Each 1.5(for example) class focusses on one position/activity/series of submissions. All are done using progressive resistance, that is the person resisting the move should not resist it all-out, but aim for about a 50% success rate on behalf of the attacker. Once he begins to nai lthe move 80% of the time, rack up the resistance....that is the optimal learning curve, leading up to being able to deal with full-on sparring resistance.

The I method has three stages.

Introduction.
Isolation.
Integration.

The Introduction stage is just that - an introduction. The audience may never have seen these moves before, so the teacher demos the move on a guinea pig and gives the major pointers to what makes it work(the concepts). Let´s say this class revolves around holding sidemount on a resisting opponent, and fishing for subos from there. The introduction would focus on what makes a successful sidemount pin work, at it´s most basic leve(blocking out the guard, controlling the far-side arm, killing/isolating the near side arm, sinking your hips and putting weight on the person´s chest).

After the Introduction stage is over(should last no more than 5-10 minutes) you pair people up and let them take turns starting in sidemount and simply attempting to hold the other person down and preventing him from regaining guard, getting to his knees or sweeping you. Again, this is done using progressive resistance, starting easy and moving up to full. If the defender succeeds in escaping, stop and start again from sidemount.

Now you´ve isolated holding the position, you go back and introduce a simple submission or transition or whatever, and then isolate that. Now people have to A)Hold sidemount and B) go for a keylock when the opportunity presents itself. after a couple of rounds of this you SHOULD see a marked improvement in peoples ability to perform these specific techniques compared to when the class started.

Introduce another submission. maybe a side choke, and do isolation on those.

Now comes the final phase, integration. Now the attacker can go for any of the moves you´ve gone over in the class, depending on what opportunities present itself. The defender can pull guard, go to his knees or sweep.

A good idea is also when integration is over to start free sparring from the position you worked on during that class, but instead of stopping and restarting if you move to another position, you continue until submission.....this integrates today´s curriculum into the grappling game as a whole.

You can use this model for anything really, we regularly have dedicated mount escape, guardpass, rear mount etc...classes using this formula. You can also apply the same formula to clinchwork and standup, and it helps people learn at a much faster rate than the "demo a few techniques, then spar" method.

 

[Rinksterk**]

So, how does your instructor break down the techniques? Do you learn by positions first, like teaching how to do submissions from the guard first, then teaching it how to do them from the mount? Or is it by submission type? Like learning how to do different armbars, then learning different ways to do the kimura?

 

[Darwinist]

So, how does your instructor break down the techniques? Do you learn by positions first, like teaching how to do submissions from the guard first, then teaching it how to do them from the mount? Or is it by submission type? Like learning how to do different armbars, then learning different ways to do the kimura?

The game is most definently position based. If you can

 

[oyaji poi]

I agree with SBG having the best methods. Maybe another gym somewhere has better fighters, or better classes, but SBG has put together their methodology into books and DVD's, and consistently teach using their flexible formula. There are a few themes that are always true, but they are not techniques, more like theories or things that work usually, for most people. They focus on teaching skills and drilling your weakest attributes instead of your strongest attribute. Just "sparring" all the time, you will naturally develop your better points and avoid your weakpoints. So if you're fast, you'll always do quick moves. But if you fight someone who's faster, or just alot stronger, you'll not have much to fall back on.

Another interesting concept from SBG is their "slow roll". They'll drill the moves quickly, as was described above. But when it comes time to spar, they'll often go at only 50% speed, or even 20%. This prevents people from muscling or quick-stepping their way through a technique, be it a guard pass or a reversal. This makes them highly technical, and it allows you to train way more frequently. How many of us have been injured by sparring due to someone muscling a technique or just going too hard? All of us.

But if you drill hard, but spar slow, your technical game will skyrocket, and you will probably not be injured.

 

[Darwinist]

Slow rolling is not only fun, but it also cures the "newbie-spazzout" cases in a matter of days instead of weeks/months. Of course slow rolling exclusively is no good, but its an awesome thing to mix into your regular sparring and yes it makes you much more technical.

Matt Thornton´s thought on training are in his Aliveness 101 blog, and I recommend that if you feel you teacher´s curriculum is haphazard and can be improved, give him this link or print it out for him.....if he´s at all interested in becoming a better teacher then he´ll be interested! http://aliveness101.blogspot.com/