Anyone train with strikes?

[junco]

Talking purely about BJJ schools, rather than MMA schools. Does anyone attend a BJJ school where they will occasionally get the opportunity to train with strikes on the ground? If it is not part of your normal curriculum, would your instructor be opposed to you training with strikes during open mat (with a consenting partner, of course)?

Just curious how common it is at non-MMA schools.

 

[Bret Griffin]

I doubt your instructor would care but it wouldn't hurt to ask.

 

[Squirrel]

I've never seen it in any purely BJJ schools. The reason I believe this is because people will lose sight of the grappling aspect and just punch from wherever they feel like. I train it with a few buddies occasionally just so I can be aware of punches. If I were to have a purely BJJ school I probably wouldn't teach it either just mention the strike possibilities from a position everyonce in awhile. Then again I wouldn't ever just have a purely BJJ school. I think MMA classes should be added in for that kind of stuff.


Edit: Although with experienced guys I think they would know where to and where not to punch, but it still takes away time from grappling.

 

[mr violent]

I've never seen it in any purely BJJ schools. The reason I believe this is because people will lose sight of the grappling aspect and just punch from wherever they feel like. I train it with a few buddies occasionally just so I can be aware of punches. If I were to have a purely BJJ school I probably wouldn't teach it either just mention the strike possibilities from a position everyonce in awhile. Then again I wouldn't ever just have a purely BJJ school. I think MMA classes should be added in for that kind of stuff.


Edit: Although with experienced guys I think they would know where to and where not to punch, but it still takes away time from grappling.

my club (which is purely bjj) used to have a jits with hits class, either light strikes with gloves or open hand slaps, to keep your partners honest.

edit: it went away because nobody likes being hit.

 

[TheHereticJay]

my club (which is purely bjj) used to have a jits with hits class, either light strikes with gloves or open hand slaps, to keep your partners honest.

edit: it went away because nobody likes being hit.

Because jiu jitsu guys don't like getting hit...we like inverting and doing silly things. I'll help the mma guys sometimes and yeah...inverting definitely a bad idea lol.

But if I had a pure bjj school, I'd totally have classes where you can be struck. Then again, I'd also focus 65/35 sport/self defense so you'd know what you're getting into when signing up. I feel that all PURE bjj schools should integrate strikes because at it's core...strikes are an intregal part.

 

[esteven]

I've never seen it in any purely BJJ schools. The reason I believe this is because people will lose sight of the grappling aspect and just punch from wherever they feel like. I train it with a few buddies occasionally just so I can be aware of punches. If I were to have a purely BJJ school I probably wouldn't teach it either just mention the strike possibilities from a position everyonce in awhile. Then again I wouldn't ever just have a purely BJJ school. I think MMA classes should be added in for that kind of stuff.


Edit: Although with experienced guys I think they would know where to and where not to punch, but it still takes away time from grappling.

My school rolls with punches now and then, because my coach likes SD. It's actually pretty popular. What I've seen is actually the exact opposite of what you'd expect: Most of the students are MUCH better at grappling than they are at striking (obviously), that, shortly into most rounds, the bottom player does such a good job of managing space that the top guy gives up on punching altogether.

However, the punching that does happen tends to be pretty conservative, because they are so mindful of the "grappling aspect." No one wants to lose position, so they tend to strike fairly cautiously. Now, we take it easy, especially with the face shots, so I think if we were really going heavy, people would put a LOT more faith in their G&P (well, actually, they would all quit, but you get what I mean).

 

[Saenchai]

the bottom player does such a good job of managing space that the top guy gives up on punching altogether.

Isn't this the ideal SD training? Train so much and get so good that your attacker doesn't want to punch anymore! ahahah

 

[HIMBOB]

Now, we take it easy, especially with the face shots, so I think if we were really going heavy, people would put a LOT more faith in their G&P (well, actually, they would all quit, but you get what I mean).

I had my first MMA fight recently and I was massively disappointed in how much faith I put in my GnP.

Sure I landed some good shots but its really hard to land anything game changing, I really wish I used my BJJ more. One instance he had his back to me and was standing, an easy RNC went begging as I just tried to strike. Unless the guy is already hurt or he simply wants out its damn hard to finish from GnP.

 

[DiscipleOfPog]

My school is pure BJJ but my teacher does an MMA class during the last No-Gi class of each month. We'll do some takedown set-ups with strikes, then roll with light GnP. It's pretty damn fun.

 

[Dedication]

At my Combat Sambo school yes, fairly frequently.

At my BJJ school yes, but it is very rare. Usually only when we have a smaller class of more experienced guys on the mat. We do it often enough to be somewhat prepared in a self-defense situation but it's by no-means a staple of our training. If one of our guys preps for an MMA fight then we usually volunteer to throw some ground and pound his way but even then that would be more of an extra-session deal not so-much regular class time.

 

[lechien]

yep. about once every 11 classes.

 

[Squirrel]

Pretty interesting to hear that some schools do this! I think it's good to do but in a separate MMA class. Some people go to BJJ class just for sport and can get pissy when the lesson doesn't apply to sport as much as a regular lesson would.

 

[lechien]

Pretty interesting to hear that some schools do this! I think it's good to do but in a separate MMA class. Some people go to BJJ class just for sport and can get pissy when the lesson doesn't apply to sport as much as a regular lesson would.

that actually make me sad to read.

 

[esteven]

I had my first MMA fight recently and I was massively disappointed in how much faith I put in my GnP.

Sure I landed some good shots but its really hard to land anything game changing, I really wish I used my BJJ more. One instance he had his back to me and was standing, an easy RNC went begging as I just tried to strike. Unless the guy is already hurt or he simply wants out its damn hard to finish from GnP.

Finish? Oh, I totally agree. That goes double if it's SD, and no one is throwing in any towels. But for maintaining control and creating submission or advancement (or reversal, for that matter) opportunities, striking is a damn powerful tool, provided you use it in a way that you're effective with.

With my teammates, since most of them haven't gotten to actually experience the effect that a good GnP has on their opponent, many have trouble seeing it as a viable strategy.

 

[Calibur]

I've never seen it in any purely BJJ schools. The reason I believe this is because people will lose sight of the grappling aspect and just punch from wherever they feel like. I train it with a few buddies occasionally just so I can be aware of punches. If I were to have a purely BJJ school I probably wouldn't teach it either just mention the strike possibilities from a position everyonce in awhile. Then again I wouldn't ever just have a purely BJJ school. I think MMA classes should be added in for that kind of stuff.


Edit: Although with experienced guys I think they would know where to and where not to punch, but it still takes away time from grappling.

One of my BJJ buddies is an MMA fighter and everytime we roll in the gi, we do it with strikes. Constant knuckle taps to the face and knees to the ribs. No elbows though. We do it mostly because I had some pretty decent MMA training (good GnP) in the states, and it's fairly rare in Japan.

The game is incredibly different. My closed guard is terrible. Guard passing becomes much easier with strikes, and also less important.

Due to the climate of sports bjj, the game has evolved to the point to where GnP isn't a natura evolution. Guys do not train with the inention of keeping someone on the floor anymore so the concept of striking is more foreign now than it was before.

I only see this issue getting worse too. Just my opinion.

I recommend everyone practice ground and pound once you find a partner you trust. You might find your BJJ isn't what you thought it was.

 

[junco]

My school rolls with punches now and then, because my coach likes SD. It's actually pretty popular. What I've seen is actually the exact opposite of what you'd expect: Most of the students are MUCH better at grappling than they are at striking (obviously), that, shortly into most rounds, the bottom player does such a good job of managing space that the top guy gives up on punching altogether.

However, the punching that does happen tends to be pretty conservative, because they are so mindful of the "grappling aspect." No one wants to lose position, so they tend to strike fairly cautiously. Now, we take it easy, especially with the face shots, so I think if we were really going heavy, people would put a LOT more faith in their G&P (well, actually, they would all quit, but you get what I mean).

Funny, I've noticed something very similar. I've only rolled with punches a few times, but each time I did there were probably 15 strikes thrown total in a 5 minute roll (12 of which occured in the first minute). This might have more to do with my partners (and myself) not having any real MMA experience though. Without understanding how to ground-and-pound properly, and by having such a grappling-oriented mindset, you very quickly forget about punches.

Ironically, it might be most helpful to roll with strikes with a brand new white belt, as they would probably react most similarly to a real self-defense situation.

 

[HIMBOB]

that actually make me sad to read.

Why so?

If I sign up for BJJ classes I want BJJ classes, if I sign up for self defence I want self defence.

I would feel pretty damn pissied if I was in an MMA class and we started doing knife disarming techniques.

Personally self defence is not even part of the reason I train. Its a nice side benefit but I train cause its good fun and I want to compete.

 

[junco]

I recommend everyone practice ground and pound once you find a partner you trust. You might find your BJJ isn't what you thought it was.

This is a great point. Funny story related to this:

About 5 months after I started BJJ, I had to move back to my hometown where there were no BJJ classes. Twice a week I would get a couple buddies (who unfortunately had no BJJ experience), and we'd put on gloves and roll with strikes at the local YMCA (disclaimer: turns out the YMCA doesn't like having a bunch of idiots bloodying up their multi-purpose rooms).

Anyways, I quickly developed a reasonably tight and active closed guard (for a white belt). Once I moved and started training BJJ for real again, I won the majority of tournament matches from my closed guard. Over the next 4 years I stopped training with strikes, focused purely on "sport" BJJ, and almost never use closed guard anymore.

Strangely, I think my 5-month white belt closed guard game would have probably served me better for self-defense than my current guard game. Which is sad.

 

[lechien]

Why so?

If I sign up for BJJ classes I want BJJ classes, if I sign up for self defence I want self defence.

I would feel pretty damn pissied if I was in an MMA class and we started doing knife disarming techniques.

Personally self defence is not even part of the reason I train. Its a nice side benefit but I train cause its good fun and I want to compete.

Because I don't consider BJJ as a sport.

I can understand that learning how to use your JJ skills under strikes might be a bit out dated once you get your blue belt BUT I still think it is relevant.

Actually I am sad when I read that people would say go train MMA if you want to train with strikes.

Oh well, let's go berimbolo each other and be merry. :icon_lol:

 

[ManFurrB]

Training with strikes IS jiu jitsu. Everything else is a game. Obviously we have a sport side as well (which is fun too), but i think everyone should be able to handle a striking opponent to be allowed to say they KNOW jiu jitsu. It's a self defense art first and foremost. If you cant deal with a striking opponent its as relevant as point karate or tkd.
Now dont get me wrong i PLAY(cuz thats what it is) the sport side as well and enjoy it.
I would just hate to see another martial art get watered down to nothing more than a game(although a fun one) with not much Martial art left to it, which im afraid is happening.