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Anyone here like arm triangles from back control?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by redaxe, Oct 29, 2010.

  1. redaxe

    redaxe Silver Belt

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    This is my new favorite move this month, and lately I've been getting it a lot in training, especially in no-gi. When you have back control with over-unders on someone, they expect you to go for the RNC or the armbar, but instead you pass the arm that's under the armpit through and around the neck as you move into side control, and hey, free arm triangle.

    Like this:



    If you watch this video it looks painfully obvious and simple, but guys don't usually do this to me in training and I've never been taught it in class, I just sort of figured it out independently and it clicked for me, and now I've made it my main backup move from back control if I can't get the RNC.

    Does anyone else here use this technique?

    Know of any examples of famous jiu-jitsu guys using this move in matches? Or MMA fighters using this in fights? I guess Thales Leites used it in his fight at the TUF 5 finale.

    Or does anyone else have a move they'd like to share that they've just sort of "figured out" by themselves without ever having it taught to them?

    I'm a little bit drunk so sorry if this was a dumb thread, haha
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2010
  2. ijustwannasurf

    ijustwannasurf Brown Belt

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    This is my favorite move from the back. Only detail I would add is taking your outside hook out and using it to elevate the leg it was controlling. This keeps them from turning into you.
     
  3. Rjay

    Rjay Green Belt

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    Its a great move no-gi, but I can never hit it gi. Too much friction between your sleeve and his collar makes it hard to slide your arm in there and make it tight.
     
  4. Cojofl

    Cojofl Brown Belt

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    Same.

    I like it a lot, it has a natural progression to it. It's not optimal to go for it, until your back control fails. You also maintain a dominant position, which is always good.
     
  5. netbjjer420

    netbjjer420 Green Belt

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    With the gi you can grab the sleeve of your 'over' arm with your 'under' arm like and Ezekiel and bring the blade of you 'over' arm to the other side of his neck.
     
  6. Shemhazai

    Shemhazai Black Belt

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    I used to do it a lot, now I go for the North-South choke instead.
     
  7. Steelviper

    Steelviper Green Belt

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    No, but I like the idea a lot. Everybody always goes 100% defending the RNC, so I've been looking for other options. Armbar and triangle have been my main alternatives to date, but I've got long arms so this should suit me well.

    As far as stumbling onto a technique, I did accidentally do a "ninja roll" back take while sparring, though I didn't understand what I was doing. My instructor spotted it and broke it down and taught it to me later. I was thrilled that he was able to salvage something valid out of what I was doing, though that's more likely a testament to his skill than mine.
     
  8. MUFC

    MUFC Brown Belt

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    In gi, I prefer the ezekiel choke from back if I'm not getting the collars. In no gi, the arm triangle is easier from back. Wagnney Fabiano was in a few weeks ago and he said he loves the arm triangle from back in gi and nogi. I just find the ezekiel to be sneakier.
     
  9. iheartthemount

    iheartthemount Blue Belt

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    thanks for sharing! I'll have to give it a shot sometime.
     
  10. tehk1w1

    tehk1w1 Brown Belt

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    Wow. That looks so basic and yet I've never even thought about it.

    Thanks for sharing TS!
     
  11. redaxe

    redaxe Silver Belt

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    How do you set up a N-S choke from back control? Do you have a vid?
     
  12. redaxe

    redaxe Silver Belt

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    Good tip, thanks!
     
  13. one.armed.jack

    one.armed.jack Orange Belt

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    One thing I noticed immediately is that the Opponent is escaping to the "wrong" side, in other words, into the choking arm. Although in practice this happens from time to time, I've rarely experienced it with anyone above purple; more experienced guys are generally careful to escape the back to the proper side. For those of you who like to apply this transition to the head/arm choke, do you find yourself able to pull something similar off when your opponent escapes properly?
     
  14. redaxe

    redaxe Silver Belt

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    Above purple meaning brown or black? Well I've never gotten an arm triangle of any kind on a brown or black belt so I don't know. I think I've only gotten back control on a black belt like once and I'm pretty sure he let me do it.

    But I pulled off this technique on a purple belt at no-gi class last night. If you're controlling him with a tight over-under you don't really have to wait for him to escape to the "wrong" side. You can initiate the transition yourself, just like if you were transitioning from back control to mount, but you collect the head and arm on the way.

    Once you take that hook off the far leg he's going to sit out, and he can't turn away from you because that would gift you an armbar. So he kind of has to turn into you, which gifts you the arm triangle. But the way a better guy would defend it is probably by keeping the elbow real tight to his ribs so you can't get your arm too deep in his armpit, preventing you from collecting his head, and then turn into you further and get his elbow to the ground which will make you lose the choke.

    Every position has an escape and every technique has a counter, man.
     
  15. ijustwannasurf

    ijustwannasurf Brown Belt

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    It's best initiate this as an attack rather than a counter to their escape. It can work that way, but I'd rather start pulling my grip into position as soon as I can.
     
  16. fourfif**

    fourfif** Banned Banned

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    +





    ...... MONEY.


    great thread. 10/10.



    edit: leg elevation tip was good too. I really like that spider roll. I learned it in class but it's nice to have the video
     
  17. one.armed.jack

    one.armed.jack Orange Belt

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    I was specifically referring to the video posted at the beginning of this thread, which seemed to be a response to a fairly amateurish escape. I transition from rear mount to head/arm chokes and vice-versa regularly, with and without the gi, but as a counter to a proper rear-mount escape, I find it's not really an option; thus my question. And I meant that purple belts and above rarely escape "into the choke", with occasional exceptions.

    Yes, I've heard that somewhere... :icon_chee
     
  18. fourfif**

    fourfif** Banned Banned

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    with all due respect,

    it's been stated a couple of times that this move can and should be initiated, irrespective of your opponents intentions.
     
  19. [Tycho?]

    [Tycho?] Brown Belt

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    Thanks for posting this. I'm amazed I didn't think of this myself, its so obvious.
     
  20. Drew Foster

    Drew Foster Silver Belt

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    Check your PM

    EDIT: It is my absolute FAVORITE move if they escape back control by getting their back to the mat!
     

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