Anyone else suspects that Conor ruined the UFC in the long run

Well I can only speak for myself. Used to buy 6 events or so a year and since live in Vegas go to about 4. Only went to 216 last year and stopped buying and cancelled fight pass. Speaking with my wallet is all I can do.
 
ThulsaDooom said:
Lol two of those dudes will be retired in 2 to 3 years and compete in the most dead divisions. Some future!

Conor didn't ruin shit because he doesn't run the UFC. If anything, he's emboldened fighters to stop being the company man and fight for their worth instead of swallowing whatever Dana and the brass ejaculate. The UFC has always been a bit of a shit organization with how they treat their fighters but mah precious belts!

The belts lost a lot of meaning a long time ago when they started giving immediate rematches or another title shot shortly after getting starched in the inital fight. Rankings have always been awful and rarely have made any sense.

Lol at saying the UFC "sold out." They're a goddamn business, that's what they're supposed to do instead of some laughable code of martial arts and bushido and honorable title fights to please messageboard nerds. It's always been carny and always will be carny.
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Conors most profitable fights were non title fights with Nate so he didnt have to step over Khabib who was #1 for two years, undefeated, smoked previous champ and healthy for UFC profit. That was just bullshit especially after getting killed by Nate and then barley scrapping by.
 
Conor has been good for the sport. It is Dana and others who don't control him out of fear of losing their golden child who are ruining things.
 
The UFC was facing a changing of the guard. The original guys got old, GSP retired, BJ was done. The UFC needed fresh blood and Connor did that. Now we have the best Lineup in all the divisions except HW. That’s pretty good.
 
I called this happening years ago.

I said that MMA stars were getting bigger and bigger, and the money they were making was going to go through the roof.

We haven't even gotten to where I predicted yet, which is the point where fighters don't need promoters and can run their own shows. That day is a long way off but it's coming.
 
FrankieNYC said:
They did an evaluation in September when shares were sold

Also WME does not even own 50% of UFC (as of 9/17), they have multiple partners & have investor documents regarding profit, etc. they find their way to financial reporters.
Since there are so many investors, numbers are found much more easily then when it was basically two brothers
But even then, the numbers came out due to creditor filings

Here is an interview I did a month or so ago regarding it. It has info that can catch you up
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Okay, nice to encounter an informed human on Sherdog (weird). I concede that I'm not a media insider, my area is Pharma finance, so I'll abuse your time and ask some questions:

1) If there was an ownership transaction disclosed more recently that marked to market at $5B, I missed it. Link?

2) ‎Last I'd seen were the Ebitda forecasts going around in 1H17 when KKR was shopping another tranche. I think it was the same >$300M guidance that was going around in the original $1.8B+ raise. I recall there was pushback on overly aggressive adj-Ebitda add-backs. So, best case we're talking high 6x leverage using their generous accounting, right?

3) ‎What do we now know about 2017 Ebitda excluding the 1x Floyd-McGregor fight? I'm not giving them any multiple on that income. Did they surpass $300M? What's 2018 look like?

5) ‎Assuming shaky PPV trends don't improve, and new TV deal only comes in at $200-250M/year, and upward pressure on fighter pay continues... What kind of 2019+ Ebitda are we talking about?

I don't actually know what comparable media/sports multiples are, but when I hear "aggressive accounting", and 6x leverage, and hyping up non-recurring boxing income, and relatively lukewarm TV deal offers... My gut says "someone top-ticked this acquisition."

Regardless, my original point was only that the high leverage incurred incentivises WME/IMG to maximize short term income to de-lever (matchmaking shenanigans, under-investment in building new stars, etc) at the expense of long term sustainable growth.
 
Probably not. It seemed like he might have with GSP-Bisping being booked and rumours of Woodley-Diaz, but even Woodley has only actually fought the likes of Wonderboy and Maia. Conor screwed up a couple divisions temporarily, but things are starting to smooth out now.
 
Conor is the first fighter to beat Dana at his own game and became MMA's first nine figure fighter. It is Dana's fault that rankings are meaningless.
 
OGL said:
Okay, nice to encounter an informed human on Sherdog (weird). I concede that I'm not a media insider, my area is Pharma finance, so I'll abuse your time and ask some questions:

1) If there was an ownership transaction disclosed more recently that marked to market at $5B, I missed it. Link?

2) ‎Last I'd seen were the Ebitda forecasts going around in 1H17 when KKR was shopping another tranche. I think it was the same >$300M guidance that was going around in the original $1.8B+ raise. I recall there was pushback on overly aggressive adj-Ebitda add-backs. So, best case we're talking high 6x leverage using their generous accounting, right?

3) ‎What do we now know about 2017 Ebitda excluding the 1x Floyd-McGregor fight? I'm not giving them any multiple on that income. Did they surpass $300M? What's 2018 look like?

5) ‎Assuming shaky PPV trends don't improve, and new TV deal only comes in at $200-250M/year, and upward pressure on fighter pay continues... What kind of 2019+ Ebitda are we talking about?

I don't actually know what comparable media/sports multiples are, but when I hear "aggressive accounting", and 6x leverage, and hyping up non-recurring boxing income, and relatively lukewarm TV deal offers... My gut says "someone top-ticked this acquisition."

Regardless, my original point was only that the high leverage incurred incentivises WME/IMG to maximize short term income to de-lever (matchmaking shenanigans, under-investment in building new stars, etc) at the expense of long term sustainable growth.
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Backatcha & always welcome intelligent additions to these convo's

1. You can google & find links regarding that
2 & 3. The $320m expectations include MayMac. Rumored to be $30-50m for UFC. That taken out would still be their biggest year by far
4. There was no #4 lol
5. By realistic accounting. UFC in 2019 is a $200m+ EBITDA company without PPV

Regarding future:
UFC is getting about $165m this year from Fox. The last bid was supposedly about $225 per.
Now what we don't know is ... what is included in that offer. More/less & where?
There are also negotiations with NBC to take all the programming.

Here is an old interview I did in October that is still pretty relevant - https://mma-today.com/going-ufc-tv-deal-negotiations-fans-concerned

The biggest difference between Lorenzo era & WME era is the fiscal management.
WME made well over $60m in budget cuts since they took over.
They also secured better deals as far as marketing/advertising.
There was a lot of over-spending in Lorenzo's era obviously

Another thing to take into account is the fact there were 3-4 other bids in the same range for UFC that took place in the closed bidding.
Zuffa LLC was sold for 3.705b (plus 200m in loan payments upfront to secure the deal).
Fox offered $3.5-3.6 & there were at least 2 other bids over Fox offer.
Dana said one was bigger then WME's, but DW is not a great source ;)

Bottom line: UFC does not need to grow in popularity to be a successful investment.
WME are not in the MMA business ... the are in the entertainment & product distribution business.
WME received another $1.1b from happy investors. Did they use that to pay off UFC fueled debt? Nope, they rather be liquid to grow WME.
I said the day UFC was sold, that WME can break-even yearly on their share of UFC & still its a great investment because it helps their portfolio going forward.
They are doing much better then breaking even obviously & unless disaster strikes, they are a pretty solid company.

Now that doesn't mean they should not be concerned with declining popularity - of course they should
But the true test of the WME-Era will begin in 2019 when they can change how they distribute product.

I have no idea if they are good for MMA (or not)
Can't tell for a few more years.
But history has shown they are pretty smart businessmen & negotiators.


As far as you mentioning "Fighter pay".
In 2015, we know that they paid 13% of revenue (about $80m)
No info on 2016/17
 
Conor made the sport. Don't be mad that he took it to a level other bums can't get to. The loss of GSP, Brock, the roiding of Anderson + Jones, and the departure of Ronda and Paddy Holohan haven't helped matters.
 
ColombianFist said:
It's the UFC's fault to let irish jabroni fight floyd and pretty much every shenanigan he did. Brock, Rhonda, GSP and even Andy Silva were big and they didn't exploited the UFC. McG saw a chance to do that with the floyd fight and dana let him. Now that the fame and cash went to McG's head there's no one who can control this monster. uless they strip him of the title.
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After making $100 million, he could care less about the title. Conor wants equity.
 
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