Anyone else seem to jump over trips?

[georgejjr]

you are not doing it like I do:icon_chee

I mean hip throws you can gently put them down if you have launched them

a proper osoto or sasae they go flying

and even with kouchi and ouchi people who get thrown try to get away because they don't realize that me landing on top of them if there is separation hurts more then if i am allowed close when it actually doesn't hurt at all (you can help break the fall and roll with it)

I'm thinking more of de ashi barai, which is what most 'trips' are (and yeah, you can send someone flying with that too, but its pretty easy to do it gently). Osoto is, as you know a reap, and sasae is more of a body lock throw, with actually a pretty hard landing. Great throws, not good for throwing beginners with poor ukemi. And actually, for kids osoto is pretty dangerous according the sports physiologists, because they haven't developed the neck muscles to support their head when thrown that way ... one of the Canadian national coaches was suggesting not letting kids (meaning under 10) do it for that reason.

You're right about being able to do o goshi gently, I should use that more with beginners.

 

[Darkslide632]

That's a "reap" not a "trip" though.

lol... how does one define a "trip" exactly?

 

[Auspex]

lol... how does one define a "trip" exactly?

 

[redaxe]

lol... how does one define a "trip" exactly?

You're a judo guy, you should know the difference between a "gari"/reap technique and a trip. Why don't you tell me?

 

[CyberFreq]

You're a judo guy, you should know the difference between a "gari"/reap technique and a trip. Why don't you tell me?

AFAIK, a reap is using your leg/foot/ankle/whatever to 'catch' the opponent's foot/leg/ankle/whatever and pull it out from under them, while a trip is more placing your foot there and forcing them over it, like a sag-style takedown.

A bodylock/outside trip (a standard wrestling takedown) comes to mind for a good trip example.

Trips vs reaps can be confusing though; I just yell trips when I tell someone to go for a footsweep.

 

[Calibur]

lol... how does one define a "trip" exactly?

Hmmmmmm....

A reap I point my toes towards the floor. A trip, my toes are alligned parallel with the floor.

How is that?

 

[unearth187]

Ok, maybe I'm just confusing the different categories of throws here, but in my experience some of the sweeping/reaping/tripping type throws are the most powerful and most dangerous throws out there. A properly done ko ouchi /ko soto gari can be really punishing, and it can also be difficult to break the fall. You can't roll to lessen the impact of these throws so you really have to be on point with slapping the mat hard with both arms, as well as keeping your chin tucked, or your back will be bruised up for weeks and you better pray not to get KO'ed.

A few weeks back I was doing randori with one of the blackbelts @ my club. He went for a hip throw which I blocked and tried to counter by picking him up for ura nage or ushiro goshi. Well as soon as I started lifting backwards he changed the attack to ko ouchi gari, and when I landed he plowed into my sternum with his shoulder with so much force (100% of his weight, both his legs were up almost straight in the air)that when I hit the mat I felt all the air rush out of me. It literally felt like my lungs completely deflated, because I couldn't take a solid breath for the next 10 seconds or so. I've had the wind knocked out of me plenty of times from sports as a kid and from kickboxing, this was on an entirely different level. Luckily I had my chin tucked so I didn't hit my head but it was a vicious throw, the most powerful I've ever received for sure. I was sore for weeks. It was a very good learning experience though, because I learned to be very careful about my own balance when picking people up, you can't do it the same as you would deadlift or clean something or you will be sorry.


Heres a video example of a devastating ko ouchi gari, sorry for the lack of embedding
YouTube - Islam Matsiev Kouchi Gari

 

[Darkslide632]

You're a judo guy, you should know the difference between a "gari"/reap technique and a trip. Why don't you tell me?

You're comparing apples to oranges here. A reaping technique has a number of objective requirements that cause it to be a reap. A "trip" is a subjective term that could mean just about anything to just about anyone.

I'm quite certain there are plenty of people out there who would consider ouchi gari a "trip" as well as sasae tsurikomi ashi, de ashi barai, etc etc.

My point is that arguing with someone that a technique is a "trip" rather than a "reap" is a little silly, IMO.

Hmmmmmm....

A reap I point my toes towards the floor. A trip, my toes are alligned parallel with the floor.

How is that?

So, we're going to classify everything into to categories? Reaps and everything else?

There are some pretty extreme differences between deashi barai and hiza guruma or sasae tsurikomi ashi... never mind something like yoko gake. So what makes reaping techniques so different that they get classified separately while the rest get lumped together?

 

[Vector_X]

More interestingly, here we have a BJJ bluebelt who claims he has never had a single lesson on takedowns.

is he any good at them or just naturally athletic? I just find that amazing that one could get a blue belt without any takedown knowledge.

 

[Carrera26]

Half the time or more that reaps/sweeps are used in Judo is to get your feet moving/off the ground to destabilize you for the second throw. It's something every Judoka should at least be aware of and working on by green belt and can be used to outstanding effect once you're really experienced.

Look how often it is used in this example from the (exemplary) Tokio Hirano.



Here's part of a 3-part series that's just on everything you can set up from lapel-side De Ashi



So, basically, if they are worth their salt they are letting you practice and trying to get clean throws with sweeps only, which take a LOT of practice and are actually fun to practice against less trained people just so you get them more often...