1. The official Sherdog Store is back! Check it out! » Discuss it here! »

Anyone else hate turtle position? (As attacker)

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Evenflow80, Feb 11, 2020.

  1. Evenflow80 Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2016
    Messages:
    2,117
    Likes Received:
    155
    I hate it. Feel like I have no control over my opponent and generally I feel so weak from that position. This is when my opponent is in turtle and I'm behind him. Cant stand that position and at the very least try to get north south turtle so at least I can go for guillotines or some other choke
     
  2. EndlessCritic Steel Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2013
    Messages:
    29,419
    Likes Received:
    12,562
    The solution to turtle (and every position) is to avoid a one track gameplan. If your only plan is to insert the hooks, you will fail against a strong opponent.

    In gi, it's never a bad idea to grab onto the back of your opponent's collar, punch his face into the ground, and then try to tilt him on his side when he resists. There are various grips you can use with your non lapel hand to accomplish this.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2020
  3. Tebowned Boise Dime.

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2012
    Messages:
    10,262
    Likes Received:
    0
    I use turtle a lot and pretty decent at avoiding back takes.
    Only thing that really gets me in trouble is when someone has a good crucifix.
     
  4. Evenflow80 Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2016
    Messages:
    2,117
    Likes Received:
    155
    I mean as the top attacker not person in turtle
     
  5. winterbike Green Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,299
    Likes Received:
    327
    Same. I'm getting quite decent at attacking it, but overall it's the position I dislike the most (being the defender is the worst for me though).
     
  6. Daz2300 Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2018
    Messages:
    367
    Likes Received:
    151
    If i find myself behind them by their hips with no real path to attacking their neck i do one of two things:

    1) Grab the thigh and ankle of their closest leg, stand up hauling it with me then slide back down into an ankle lock as they get turned over on their back.

    2) Grab their collar and belt, post my foot on the outside of their knee then drive the other knee in hard as i haul them back of the leg i've blocked and scissor my legs to take Mount. This is a judo thingy someone showed me years ago.

    Both work better if done while loudly yelling "Surprise!!!" i've discovered.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2020
  7. ArtemV Gold Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2014
    Messages:
    20,014
    Likes Received:
    693
    Location:
    Moscow
    I always try to put weight on their hip and try to work for some kind of nelson/just pull the nearest wrist out so they collapse. As a set up, it works great for me.
     
  8. rmongler Black Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2011
    Messages:
    7,026
    Likes Received:
    781
    Location:
    ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
    If they are bunching up their knees to their head, they are pretty much just giving you a cradle for free, which you can use to break them down, affording transition into further attacks, such as mounted guillotine or assassin, taking side control, or taking the back.

    You can also just go strait into the assassin from turtle. The merkel is also a good and under-utilized method of breaking down turtling opponents, especially if you are already used to grabbing seatbelt controls.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2020
  9. Peteyandjia Autumn Booth Staff Member Forum Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2007
    Messages:
    79,712
    Likes Received:
    5,573
    Location:
    Mountain Bar
    If you’re transitioning to front headlock, there is nothing wrong with that, & it’s a fine strategy for attacking turtle.

    On top of that, I’d recommend you pick a technical backtake, as well as a good knockover to side control, drill the hell out of those two, & then you’ll have yourself a nice 3-pronged attack on the turtle position.
     
  10. tekkenfan Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2017
    Messages:
    6,800
    Likes Received:
    219
    i hated it till i learn how to break guys down folkstyle like and now alot of info is out on attacking the turtle 5 years and longer before it was a bitch taking guys back no gi here
     
  11. Hellowhosthat Steel Belt

    Joined:
    May 30, 2019
    Messages:
    31,122
    Likes Received:
    58,145
    Gordon has a new DVD out about attacking turtle, I don't have it but I've heard it's good.
     
  12. GoodbyeBlueSky82 White Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2019
    Messages:
    124
    Likes Received:
    6
    My coach kept trapping my arm and rolling me over his shoulder when I would attack the turtle with the standard regular seatbelt and attempt to get a foot hook in..... which made me scared to do it with anyone who is really strong. Lately I have been coming to NS and working for an anaconda, even in the gi. If they sit up a bit and base their arms out to try and prevent their arm being trapped for the choke, I can always abandon and circle around to a more traditional back take - and its easier than since they aren't turtled up so tight at that point.
     
  13. Quebec Nick Purple Belt

    Joined:
    May 13, 2011
    Messages:
    1,735
    Likes Received:
    64
    Location:
    Some Montreal suburb
    I like the truck entry to the back, at least your not just looking at the guy sit back to open guard.

    Most of the time when I try the truck, even if I don't manage to take the back, I would be in a better top half guard position with good options to pass it

    If not, I will try to get a kimura and start the kimura game from there
     
  14. Kbits Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2014
    Messages:
    607
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Australia
    Nope :) In a previous life, I did judo and wrestling, so am pretty ok at fucking up a typical, lazy turtle. It's not that hard if you chain breakdowns, turnovers AND submissions.

    Off the top of my head, my go to's from turtle are -
    • Two arms past bulldozer (this move is judo 101, and is so fucking stupid, but it works)
    • 3/4 nelson (wrestling)
    • Get to front headlock, sit them up, shin across belly, guillotine (BJJ)
    • Near side ankle pick (wrestling)
    • Knee tap (side or from front headlock) (wrestling)
    • Anaconda (bjj)
    • Roll over ankle lock (sambo move)
    • Russian head roll into reverse triangle (judo move) <---this is my number 1
    • Rolling bow and arrow (judo)
    • Sit through kimura (judo)
    • Spiral ride to chair sit back take(bjj + wrestling)
    • Olympic roll (greco/wrestling: I don't use this much / need to practice it more)
    • Peruvian - either side on or front (BJJ; this is my least used one / I should practice this more because it's a great follow up from front headlock)
    There's a lot of fun ways to kill a bad / mediocre turtle.

    PS: If you're interested in being a excellent turtle guard player, Priit Mihkelson's stuff in 1000% primo quality. Look him up on youtube. Someone who plays Priit's turtle (more and more people are learning it) is a pain in the ass to deal with if you don't chain breakdowns, turnovers and subs.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2020
  15. Kbits Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2014
    Messages:
    607
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Australia
    • Ankle pick him (literally). Pick both ankles up, stand up, and roll him over his shoulder or head
    • Step around to one side and try the Japanese roll
    • Get a reverse gut wrench position and roll him over (you don't have to lift them like this to do it. Just roll him over)
     
  16. Headkicktoleg Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2014
    Messages:
    40,057
    Likes Received:
    7,392
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    I used to be pretty good, but my instructor hates turtle and make people do burpees when they go to turtle so we pretty much never get to practice attacking it any more.
     
  17. Kbits Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2014
    Messages:
    607
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Australia
    I fucking LOVE turtle. Attack or defense.

    I bait people to attack it. Fat-man roll (Peterson), roll back to guard or...hand fight and stand up...and then throw them with uchimata, while they look up at me blankly.

    Those three moves are fucking ninja magic for me.

    #TurtleCuresCancer #TurtleAllTheThings #TurtleWillSnapYoDickOff
     
  18. yetanother Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2014
    Messages:
    5,753
    Likes Received:
    305
    Isn't that a big problem? Attacking a turtle is a large part of finishing guard passes.
     
  19. Cappy Goodtime Hide yo wife. Hide yo neck.

    Joined:
    May 16, 2017
    Messages:
    414
    Likes Received:
    5
    My current jiu-jitsu obsession is the crucifix. So I love when my opponent turtles. If they're keeping everything too tight to get my crucifix going, then I just dump them onto their side by pulling them or double legging (knee tap?) them.
     
  20. Tebowned Boise Dime.

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2012
    Messages:
    10,262
    Likes Received:
    0
    I know that's why I mentioned me having trouble with crucifix players. Maybe practice the crucifix position?
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.