Anyone aware of the hobby lobby situation?

[The Creeses**]

Every year that goes by, there are more and more constraints on us. I'm proposing a stop to it.

Can you be specific? I'm all ears.

 

[RYOTOOOOOO]

Im with Hobby Lobby on this one. If the government can use health care reform to force them to provide abortion pills, its a very small step to being able to force them to provide abortion coverage for its employees.

If you dont like then vote, doesnt cut it. They believe their rights are being violated so they are going to court. Thats what you do.

Plan B contraceptive pills are cheap and readily available, here is Seattle they give them away free, there is no pressing need to force a company to be complicit in what they say is murder over 9 dollar pills.

Yes, there is a pressing need. The rights of the employee to be covered for whatever medical needs may arise. That is the need.

I'm not going to repeat the 20 or so posts in here explaining why the actual religious exemption argument is stupid as hell. Certainly, they have the right to take it to court, but the law has to bear a 'significant' hindrance on their ability to practice religion, so it's unlikely that we'll see them win.

 

[Dogstarman]

Let them shut down their stores. It's their right if they don't want to follow the law.

 

[ripskater]

Can you be specific? I'm all ears.

Higher taxes, more regulations and requirements on many things.

 

[ultramanhyata]

Let them shut down their stores. It's their right if they don't want to follow the law.

No. This would violate their right to "store up riches for yourself", one of Christ's key commandments to his followers.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

In theory I agree with the Hobby Lobby stance, although I am curious as to the reaction of other supporters if this was a business run by scientologist that were refusing to cover anti-depressants or a faith healer that didn

 

[PainIsLIfe]

Let them shut down their stores. It's their right if they don't want to follow the law.

Yes it is, but it should also be my right to work for an owner that has such a policy as well without govt interferrence

 

[ripskater]

Yes, there is a pressing need. The rights of the employee to be covered for whatever medical needs may arise. That is the need.

Healthcare is not a right.

 

[ultramanhyata]

Healthcare is not a right.

Then why is it given to inmates in US prisons?

Inmates are not granted the "right" to TV's, high-tops, microwaves, massages, etc., but they are granted the right to health care (as well as food, clothing and protective shelter).

On what basis do prisons make these distinctions? On the basis that, unlike a plethora of other things that members of a free society have access to, a restriction on access to healthcare can directly lead to death.

This is the simple litmus by which any civilized society should make its demarcation between human rights and human privileges. Too bad the US is willing to be more humane towards her murderers and rapists than towards her law-abiding citizens.

 

[Dogstarman]

Yes it is, but it should also be my right to work for an owner that has such a policy as well without govt interferrence

Whatevas. It's the law now. You can argue all you want. They may win their lawsuit but this is a political move on their part. I think it's bullshit.

 

[RYOTOOOOOO]

Healthcare is not a right.

The ACA mandates specific minimum coverage standards for those that are enrolled in healthcare programs. So yes, it is a right.

 

[ripskater]

Then why is it given to inmates in US prisons?

Inmates are not granted the "right" to TV's, high-tops, microwaves, massages, etc., but they are granted the right to health care (as well as food, clothing and protective shelter).

On what basis do prisons make these distinctions? On the basis that, unlike a plethora of other things that members of a free society have access to, a restriction on access to healthcare can directly lead to death.

This is the simple litmus by which any civilized society should make its demarcation between human rights and human privileges. Too bad the US is willing to be more humane towards her murderers and rapists than towards her law-abiding citizens.

We have it all backwards. "Somebody's gotta pay for my diabetes, my medications, my abortions" and on and on. That's your responsibility and not somebody else's. Especially when it was your life choices that got you in the mess you're in.

 

[ripskater]

The ACA mandates specific minimum coverage standards for those that are enrolled in healthcare programs. So yes, it is a right.

I don't care what it mandates. The Unaffordable Care Act is unconstitutional and therefore should not even be in existence in the USA. But this is the USSR.

 

[Dogstarman]

We have it all backwards. "Somebody's gotta pay for my diabetes, my medications, my abortions" and on and on. That's your responsibility and not somebody else's. Especially when it was your life choices that got you in the mess you're in.

Actually some people make very poor choices and yes they got themselves into a mess. And there are scumbag people who refuse to even help themselves. But there are people who are genetically predisposed to these conditions and can't do I without some help. Sure you can manage it but sometimes that is not enough.

 

[ripskater]

Actually some people make very poor choices and yes they got themselves into a mess. And there are scumbag people who refuse to even help themselves. But there are people who are genetically predisposed to these conditions and can't do I without some help. Sure you can manage it but sometimes that is not enough.

I agree, and that is where charity comes in to help those in need.

 

[second sight]

I don't care what it mandates. The Unaffordable Care Act is unconstitutional and therefore should not even be in existence in the USA. But this is the USSR.

here's an awesome article as to how they try and justify their actions

http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulrod...ng-been-on-record-in-favor-of-redistribution/

 

[Dogstarman]

I agree, and that is where charity comes in to help those in need.

Lol. At charity. You are one of those guys who thinks if you pull your boot straps up and get to work harder you will succeed? Do you believe that the reason people fail is because of a moral or ethical failing on their part?

While there are shit birds out there that don't help themselves, there are also people that are trying to do everything they can to make a better life for themselves but fail to because of shit that happens. You cannot succeed on a mcdonalds minimum wage salary.

 

[RYOTOOOOOO]

I don't care what it mandates. The Unaffordable Care Act is unconstitutional and therefore should not even be in existence in the USA. But this is the USSR.

Good talk.

 

[ncordless]

Those that agree with Hobby Lobby's position:

1. My religion says that medicine is a sin. Does that mean my corporation, which is meant to follow my ideals, is exempted from providing healthcare under the ACA? Am I exempted from having to provide workers' compensation insurance?

2. How seriously held must the belief be. Hobby Lobby invests in companies that manufacture the same birth control they refuse to allow covered in their insurance plans. Can a hypocritical, superficial opinion like that really be enough to exempt one from the law.

For those that don't support Hobby Lobby:
1. If the government can do this, where is the limit?

 

[ripskater]

Lol. At charity. You are one of those guys who thinks if you pull your boot straps up and get to work harder you will succeed? Do you believe that the reason people fail is because of a moral or ethical failing on their part?

While there are shit birds out there that don't help themselves, there are also people that are trying to do everything they can to make a better life for themselves but fail to because of shit that happens. You cannot succeed on a mcdonalds minimum wage salary.

Lol at govt trying to fix our problems. I believe in personal responsibility. I also believe in charity. I believe we have moral problems and societal problems that no program or legislation can fix.