Anybody here tried steroids?

[shidokanartist]

So, I guess Josh is guilty until proven innocent. Just like Lance armstrong Right? WTF?

 

[Bodysnatcher]

I keep thinking about it. I am 34 and 6'1" and 220 lbs. I have lost 40 lbs in the last year and have been working out 6 days a week for the last 11 months. I feel that I am beginning to reach my limit for gains and would like to lean out a bit more. From what I understand Winstrol is the stuff to take. It is for purely my own desires that I even consider it. I ould like to look the best I can and if a short cycle or two is going to get me there it may be worth the risk. I have done quite a bit of research and all the side effects are reversable when you quite taking the "juice" and it is mostly associated with long term abuse and stacking of steriods.

My $.02 anyway.

 

[paddan]

You know that your package will shrink down top practicly nothing after using some Steroids, dont use them

 

[The Ronin]

Yup. Your balls shrink like little raisins. And thats the last thing you want!

 

[Tangun]

Originally posted by Bodysnatcher
I keep thinking about it. I am 34 and 6'1" and 220 lbs. I have lost 40 lbs in the last year and have been working out 6 days a week for the last 11 months. I feel that I am beginning to reach my limit for gains and would like to lean out a bit more.

Bro, if you went 11 months straight for 6 days a week, there's no way you've reached the limit of your gains. That's basically one really prolonged cutting phase. Sometimes you gotta take a step back to take two forward. You need to rest a bit and vary your training/diet cause you've adapted to whatever you're doing now.

Fantastic job on losing the 40 and keeping it off, that's huge.

And also good job on doing your research, because that's important. If you're ever gonna use you better go in there with a proper cycle, good training and diet plan to maximize your gains. I still would try many different natural approaches before you do that though.

 

[The Jake]

You won't be hitting your potential until your late 20s/early 30s and that's only if you've been exercising for 10 odd years.

Guys like Gordy are the ones who are hitting their genetic potential....

You don't need to be hitting that boundary but you do need to have a solid base down pat. If you haven't got that, you are playing russian roulette with your body.

- The Jake

 

[Hojak]

Jake, I think you're scaring them more than anything.

Seriously though... a lot of people in this thread are making it sound as if doing steroids for a few cycles is going to bring on the worst, and that's simply not true.

Fact is, doing steroids and "using" steroids, to me, are two completely different things... and trying to narrow down an "optimal" time for doing steroids to the point where you've hit your genetic potential can't possibly be an adequate answer for the curiousities that this thread is founded by.

Let's discuss in depth..... anyone who wants to disagree with me or correct me, please, go ahead and do so.... these are a lot of the questions, and other questions I feel should be asked here... in order to give a better understanding of what Steroids do & why they do it.

Firstly, consider the following... I'm not saying this to promote or detest steroids, but I have been looking into the benefits and shortcomings of 3 - 5 cycles within a 6 month period. If it comes down to it, I will be using an anabolic stack of Sustanon 250 & Winstrol. Looking at the possibilities, I'd have to go with injectables, even though I hate needles...

Read this. It's the writeup on Sustanon 250 that I found on mesomorphosis.com, a site I've been looking at in my research. It's VERY concise, but does not go into detail on side effects very much... mainly because on an observatory level, or on the level where "long term" side effects are the most predominate, they don't matter.

Sustanon 250 is an oil-based injectable containing four different testosterone compounds: testosterone propionate, 30 mg; testosterone phenylpropionate, 60 mg; testosterone isocaproate, 60mg; and testosterone decanoate, 100 mg. The mixture of the testosterones are time-released to provide an immediate effect while still remaining active in the body for up to a month. As with other testosterones, Sustanon is an androgenic steroid with a pronounced anabolic effect. Therefore, athletes commonly use Sustanon to put on mass and size while increasing strength. However, unlike other testosterone compounds such as cypionate and enanthate, the use of Sustanon leads to less water retention and estrogenic side effects. This characteristic is extremely beneficial to bodybuilders who suffer from gynecomastia yet still seek the powerful anabolic effect of an injectable testosterone. The decreased water retention also makes Sustanon a desirable steroid for bodybuilders and athletes interested in cutting up or building a solid foundation of quality mass. Dosages of Sustanon range from 250 mg every other week, up to 2000 mg or more per week. These dosages seem to be the extremes. A more common dosage would range from 250 mg to 1000 mg per week. Although Sustanon remains active for up to a month, injections should be taken at least once a week to keep testosterone levels stable.

A steroid novice can expect to gain about 20 pounds within a couple of months by using only 250 mg of Sustanon a week. More advanced athletes will obviously need higher dosages to obtain the desired effect. Sustanon is a fairly safe steroid, but in high dosages, some athletes may experience side effects due to an elevated estrogen level. With dosages exceeding 1000 mg a week, it is probably wise to use an antiestrogen such as Nolvadex (tamoxifen citrate) or Proviron (mesterolone). The use of Sustanon will suppress natural testosterone production, so the use of HCG (human chorionic gonadotropin) or Clomid (clomiphene citrate) may be appropriate at the end of a cycle. Sustanon 250 is a good base steroid to use in a stack. Athletes interested in rapid size and strength gains find that Sustanon stacks extremely well with orals such as Anadrol (oxymetholone) and Dianabol (methandrostenlone). On the other hand, Sustanon also stacks well with Parabolan (trenbolone hexahydrobencylcarbonate), Masteron (drostanolone propionate), and Winstrol (stanozolol) for athletes seeking the hard, ripped look. Sustanon 250 is quite abundant on the US black market.

While I have narrowed it down to Sustanon 250 if I WERE to juice (I am still firm on the fact that I don't want to), it took much research... and my main question was "Is there a steroid out there that I can do which WONT kill me after a 6 month cycle, WILL stack well with other steroids to maximize benefits, and WONT display side effects or make me grow man-tits when I decide I'm done using?"

This was the answer.

 

[Fat Bobby]

I'm a 100% natural athlete and plan on staying that way. However, I'd be lying if I told you I've never been tempted. I still struggle with the debate and often wonder what a cycle or two would do for me.

From what I've gathered, Deca Durabolin or D-bol is the best overall steroid (fewest side effects).

 

[J-Garden]

I know pro-wrestling is despised amongst some on this board but...
Look at the amount of suspicious deaths in wrestling in the past 10 years, a large percentage of them were on the gas all throughout their careers and have suffered as a result.

Dr. Gary Wadler said, "If someone is continuously exposed to excess growth hormone, the mortality rate is 50% by the age of fifty." quote from one of the links

Billy Graham for example is fucked as a result of steroids.
Davey Boy Smith his death natural causes? yeah it normal for a guy in his 30's with a physique like his to drop down dead.
Brian Pillman, Tom Billington etc etc


I wouldn't do it for the health implications as it isn't imperative for me to have a herculean physique. Also i have a small nob and don't particularly want to see it shrink to microscopic proportions .....

Ben Miller wrote an article discussing the effects of it in pro wreslting but is also informative as to the effects of it

http://www.liveaudiowrestling.com/wo/news/headlines/default.asp?aID=5163

http://www.liveaudiowrestling.com/wo/news/headlines/default.asp?aID=5171

http://www.liveaudiowrestling.com/wo/news/headlines/default.asp?aID=5181

 

[GFstealinBadGuy]

yes, used them when I was a stupid 19 yr old kid. Went from 145 ripped to a bloated big 210 lb fat head.

Wonderful side effects: 2 gyno surgeries. In case you are wondering what gyno is, it is "bitch tits". Look at Ric flair and many older pro wrestlers. Gyno is the enlarging of breast tissue in males...usually from the use of anabolic steroids....it can also occur naturally. Of course, when you see it in an athlete/bodybuilder you can bet your ass it isn't naturally occuring.

Now, I didn't have it as bad as ric flair (lol) BUT i had a very mild case which included slight swelling and nipples that jutted out. Gyno surgery: they basically cut open my chest under the nipple and carved the shit out of my chest. It took me 3 months to fully recover. When I got out of surgery, I seriously thought I was going to freakin die. It felt like I got hit by a truck...It was fucking terrible. THEN to top it all off, I had to get nip reduction surgery.

total: $4,000.

Guess what I found out? I can be extremely healthy and fit at 170-180 lbs and I get more chicks than ever. besides, Girls don't care about big arms. They want a nice tight ass, ripped abs and a solid body. When I was bigger I noticed a DEFINITE difference in how people treated me. People treated me like I was a total fucktard/dumb bodybuilder/meathead. lol.

The Jake is correct. proper diet and excercise are the way to go. I'd rather be "skinny" by bodybuilder standards than have a massive heart attack and bitch tits at 40. Roids are NOT worth it.

 

[Tangun]

Dave,
what is the main goal you are looking for? Strength? Size? Lean mass? Cutting? etc?

 

[butterysteez]

I see that for you the cost's deffinetly outweighed the bennifits. how long did you take steroids and how much were you taking? did you cycle?

 

[SEXY BEAST]

I think a key point that had been stated earlyer and then stepped on by others is abuse and use.
A person has to remember that testosterone is a naturally occuring hormone thus injecting a synthetic form of it into your body won't kill you.
Now what can kill you is severe abuse of many differnt types of steroids over a long period of time when you blood test tell you you should stop and you dont!
Women have been taking there own form of hormones for years with slight ramifications in the form of birth controll pills and Docters are just now starting to give male testosterone to patients w/ frequency..

 

[avid]

Why take the chance of fucking yourself up later in life? You may think your using and not abusing, but how do you know for sure? Its definitly not worth the risk and Gf can testify to that. My old roommate in college did roids and had the bitch tits too, as far as I know he's done nothing about it, is off roids, and is back down to his former puny 155 lbs. The tits are all he has to show for his foray into roids.

 

[Tangun]

Originally posted by Blown & Injected
I think a key point that had been stated earlyer and then stepped on by others is abuse and use.
A person has to remember that testosterone is a naturally occuring hormone thus injecting a synthetic form of it into your body won't kill you.
Now what can kill you is severe abuse of many differnt types of steroids over a long period of time when you blood test tell you you should stop and you dont!
Women have been taking there own form of hormones for years with slight ramifications in the form of birth controll pills and Docters are just now starting to give male testosterone to patients w/ frequency..

Although I agree with your point about abuse versus use (although use will still have negative consequences), I have to disagree with your argument about testosterone occurring naturally therefore putting more is not too dangerous. The body is a very meticulous and complicated system of hormonal checks and balances. By artificially increasing testosterone supply you are suppressing your body's natural production of that very hormone and this can lead to undesirable side effects. That is why I posted earlier that cycling off intelligently (correct use of Clomid, etc.) can really make or break a cycle. A lot of people fuck this up AND they don't know how to maintain their gains natty (proper diet/training) therefore they piss away a lot of gains.

But yes, there is a difference between use and abuse. Also, use can still have negative effects, although not as bad as abuse obviously.

 

[The Jake]

Thanks for stating that Tangun.

I'm a big believer in he who perseveres wins. I already lift more than some juicers and I'm pretty sure I'll still be lifting when I'm in my golden years too (assuming I'm still around that is).

Another thing I feel the need to comment on:

Jake, I think you're scaring them more than anything.

Good. They need to seriously think about.

Seriously though... a lot of people in this thread are making it sound as if doing steroids for a few cycles is going to bring on the worst, and that's simply not true.

Maybe... maybe not... it is true that chances are one cycle won't kill you. But that's not what I'm talking about.

What I am talking about is this - you do pay a price with every cycle. You may not see it now but you will down the line. Be it 10 years, 20 years, maybe even 30.

Sad fact is for a LOT of people who touch these things, one cycle is not enough. It becomes psychologically addictive and thus people often never give them up. Thus begins the downward spiral. The longer you are on them, the longer it takes for your hormone levels to readjust after a cycle. This is what Tangun is touching on.

Back to my point, nine times out of ten, the people who consider taking it or do take it are the ones who really shouldn't be. They're not only uneducated on their use and they are basically playing russian roulette with their bodies. I stand by that too.

And of all the educated people who did their homework, paid their dues in the gym, do everything right, there are still plenty of sob stories of these people who wind up with gyno, on dialysis, etc. etc. ad nausem. I know of at least one pro bodybuilder (that still gets checked by doctors regularly) who has been rushed into the ER and of another who has been documented as being on kidney dialysis awaiting a transplant...

Let me paint you the best case scenario - you sacrifice your long term health for short term gains. Chances are you die in your 50's and 60's, most likely from a heart related illness. It's a narrow sighted perspective Dave. Whichever way you cut the mustard.

(I'm not even going to get into the list of things that are affected by steroids, that's well documented).

Iron Trav has documented on several occasions he's picked up juicers in their 50's who have had heart attacks from cholesterol build up in the body, arising due to steroid abuse. I've argued this with Squatdog before, but my understanding this is what happened with Arnie too.

Despite all this, if you are prepared to pay the price through their use and take that risk, then by all means sally forth....

But I cannot stress this enough: don't be so naive as to think that you will not pay a price. There are plenty of morons who thought that they wouldn't have to and in the end, suprise suprise they did.

Some thought fate couldn't touch them, others thought they knew more than the other people, some more proactive in taking care of themselves etc, etc. Whatever. Call it ignorance, arrogance, whatever. They still thought they wouldn't have to pay it.

Chances are, at least some of them know more about steroids, biochemistry, human physiology than you do too.

I often think that somewhere on the way they forget the basic principle of all weight training -- EVERY BODY is different (note the seperation on the two words). You might be the unlucky SOB that has a congenital kidney defect... might be fine for the rest of your life but as soon as you take steroids, your kidneys might give out after a few cycles. You might be the poor bastard whose got a shitty thyroid and his hormonal levels just don't regulate themselves right after a cycle and develop bad case of bitch tits (or worse case yet, needs to get your pecs drained of excess fluids). Make no fucking mistake my friends, it DOES happen.

But like I said, if you're prepared to take that risk go for it.

- The Jake

 

[SEXY BEAST]

Originally posted by Tangun


Although I agree with your point about abuse versus use (although use will still have negative consequences), I have to disagree with your argument about testosterone occurring naturally therefore putting more is not too dangerous. The body is a very meticulous and complicated system of hormonal checks and balances. By artificially increasing testosterone supply you are suppressing your body's natural production of that very hormone and this can lead to undesirable side effects. That is why I posted earlier that cycling off intelligently (correct use of Clomid, etc.) can really make or break a cycle. A lot of people fuck this up AND they don't know how to maintain their gains natty (proper diet/training) therefore they piss away a lot of gains.

But yes, there is a difference between use and abuse. Also, use can still have negative effects, although not as bad as abuse obviously.

Agreed Tangun we need to be carfull when using steroids in the young, but another good point that I was trying to make was that testosterone is naturaly occuring as well as naturly depleteing so as people age we may need to suppliment. As we age the medical community is leaning towards"suplimentation " and may be at hand for the older generation but at what age and how much is still a question?
Steroids have been used going on since WW2 and very few deaths have been atributed to just steroids,definatly more research needs to be done in the young as well as older people.

 

[Tangun]

Originally posted by Blown & Injected

but another good point that I was trying to make was that testosterone is naturaly occuring as well as naturly depleteing so as people age we may need to suppliment. As we age the medical community is leaning towards"suplimentation " and may be at hand for the older generation but at what age and how much is still a question?

OK, but just remember that "supplementing" test is not like supplementing protein or vitamins where you address a deficiency by supplementing more of what's needed and expect the body to be OK with it. Bottom line is that if you stop producing natty test you're gonna end up "permanently supplementing." There's a proper way to do it, though, and the cycle should end with proper stimulation of natural test production in the body, or else. Actually I believe some of the most interesting application for AS is for treating muscle-wasting diseases. Several of my former colleagues during grad school are doing this type of research right now.

The thing that gets me about AS though for MOST (not all, most) people that use it is that they use it because they don't know how to eat/train right. So then they get on it and when they get off it they need to learn to eat/train right anyway or it's really all for naught in the long run. So why not learn how to eat/train right, get as big/strong as you can naturally and then assess whether you still need it or not? I guess it's the results now dammit mentality of society nowadays.

 

[The Jake]

Originally posted by Blown & Injected
Steroids have been used going on since WW2 and very few deaths have been atributed to just steroids,definatly more research needs to be done in the young as well as older people.

I'm not sure if I've made myself clear on this.

It's not the steroids that kill you per se.

It's the prolonged use of the focking things and all the damage to your body over the long term which CAN (not always) lead to death.

- The Jake

 

[SEXY BEAST]

Some more good points Tangun, but still statistics show that the human race needs to supplement do to inadiqucies in our diets or hormone production, I.E.....ESTROGEN,PROGESTRONE,TESTOSTERONE,VITAMINS, MINERALS AND SO FORTH.
Have you ever seen a 40 year old individual lacking hormones a male can take on female charicteristics and a woman can have severe hot flashes, mood swings and so forth..
Unless stableized by supplementation.