Any pure sambist that beat a pure judoist in sambo rules?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Italianissimo, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. Italianissimo

    Italianissimo Yellow Belt

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    As written above.
    Just because it seems that the average sambo level is much lower than the average judo level
     
  2. Aed

    Aed White Belt

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    Basically every sambo player I've met considers themselves a judoka too.

    I've met plenty of judoka who don't train sambo, but I've never met a sambo player that doesn't train judo, so I'm not sure your question can be answered.
     
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  3. Gabicho

    Gabicho Brown Belt

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    Yes.
    Since the 60's. Still happens.
    Hard to say who is "pure" Sambo and who is "pure" judo, though, for in high level competition you'll almost never find athletes that have not dwelled into other combat disciplines, particularly with judo and Sambo being so close.

    It is not strange that some teams (Bulgaria, Bielorrusia, Georgia, etc) have very high level athletes of both sports doing competition in both sports. Judo guys seldom win in Sambo first places and viceversa.
     
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  4. Italianissimo

    Italianissimo Yellow Belt

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    There are pure sambists in Europe Eastern countries, much more than in western. I mean sambists who started training sambo and not from judo to sambo.
    From what I know in those countries is common to see wrestlers training and fighting in sambo.
     
  5. MadSquabbles500

    MadSquabbles500 Steel Belt

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    Didnt the russians who beat the Japanese when they first came onto scene basically use sambo style gripping and tactics? I dont know that is what I heard. Isnt sambo basically the European ideal of how you do jacket wrestling?
     
  6. ArtemV

    ArtemV Gold Belt

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    It's difficult to talk about Sambists/Judoka and differentiate between who is a pure judoka, and sambist. Back home, we cross trained in class, judo among sambists, sambists among judoka. If you are at a high level in one sport, Sambo, there will be a good chance that you will succeed in the other sport that you move to. Sambists such as Mudranov, Kurzhev etc have all been sambo players, that moved to Judo and have had good success in both sports.

    But it's hard to answer your question.. there are only really high level sambists from Russia, Ukraine, Georgia etc, and some high level Judoka from Russia, mainly from France and Japan. But if the judoka didn't know how to attack legs, sure. I guess they could win.
     
  7. selfcritical

    selfcritical Brown Belt

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    Yeah, all the time. However, at the end of the day 1) there's not a lot of "purity" going on, because it's not really anyone's goal. 2) Judo is an olympic sport , sambo isn't, and the sports have virtually identical physical requirements, so if someone is the cream of the crop genetically speaking, they're going to be doing Judo as their main sport. That's not style superiority, it's just routing a scarce resource to getting olympic medals.
     
  8. Italianissimo

    Italianissimo Yellow Belt

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    I believe the same. Being Judo an Olympic sport makes it more developed and with an higher general level
     
  9. Gabicho

    Gabicho Brown Belt

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    Judo specialists really have to specialize and work on what works in judo. Which in sambo offensively can sometimes work wonders, but not defensively (leg takedowns, leg submissions, etc).

    Some Sambo teams like France, Spain, Germany, Italy, Netherlands, have a great deal of "pro" judoka in their teams and constantly and soundly get beaten by Russian, Ukrainian, Georgian, etc sambists in Sambo, and they also lose to some countries they would not lose to in judo.

    This development means specialization, and can mean sometimes over specialization. They lose usually because of poor leg defense, different grip fighting principles, leg submissions.

    If they fix and adjust all of this in their judo they can hardly be called pure judoka... Because they are now doing Sambo or "very old judo". Physical tools of Sambo and judo are very similar, but not the same. Much less so for combat Sambo.
     
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  10. Italianissimo

    Italianissimo Yellow Belt

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    Italian sambists are generally ex good judoists who have past their prime or average judoists with no hope to be in the national team, so I think that seeing them losing from Russians or Ukrainians is not a big test
     
  11. Bluesbreaker

    Bluesbreaker Black Belt

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    I would think, because they have different rules, a judoka will usually with with a throw/throws in judo and a sambist might win with something like a leglock in sambo.
     
  12. Italianissimo

    Italianissimo Yellow Belt

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    Or judoist with a choke on the ground. There is the false idea that sambo has more groundwork than judo, but, if you watch a sambo match, you will see that is not like that at all. Nowadays in sambo, if you don't grab a limb after the throw, they immediately stand you up.
     
  13. selfcritical

    selfcritical Brown Belt

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    Winning via leg lock as a primary strategy is a bad idea in Sport Sambo. You're gonna have a bad time.

    See Bodycomb, Riley at worlds this year for an example

    My friend Nina has won or placed at sambo worlds every time she's gone, and she literally cannot hit a leg lock against a resisting opponent without a huge size advantage.

    The winning a game is throw/threaten pin/armbar
     
  14. Italianissimo

    Italianissimo Yellow Belt

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    The stand up game is still primary in Sambo and yes, many armbars, but leglocks have a huge impact on the ground game, that is limited though
     
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