Any information about "Wu Lin Feng"? - January 31 - Amazing Kickboxing Event

[heavenly kaghan]

Although currently in my opinion the best rule set for the two styles will be K-1, as in, MT allowed to use clinch one knee/attack no elbow. no hip throws and no sanda takedowns allowed.

I absolutely do not think K 1 rules is representative of the two sports. It handicaps a good half of the weapons of both sports, especially Sanda. Trying to find a "common ground" might sound fair, but its almost like pitting an MMA guy with a Kickboxer in a boxing match, it might be fair, but its not even close to the original sport.

If you want them to use all your weapons, I would say FMT with sanda takedowns with countdown scoring from 10, judging would be on the overall rounds and not count every punch, knee and elbow, or takedown. much like how K1 is being scored. with all strikes considered equal. with downs increasing your ring controll which could score you higher if round is scored a draw and no significant power hits for either in the round.

That would significantly favor MT. The fact is, you cannot use countdown system with a style that has wrestling but no ground work. It doesn't work. Takedowns would have no more than a subsidiary role to striking. But Sanda isn't a striking based art and I never liked the direction China is taking trying to conform to kickboxing over MMA. Even if you imply a MMA scoring system for takedowns, it doesn't reflect Sanda as Sanda is not based on ground control whereas ground control is how MMA scores grappling dominance. Sanda has a completely different fight/wrestling theory. The idea of Sanda is to throw a guy down while you remain standing, the throws itself is a sign of damage and control. Sanda isn't really kickboxing with takedowns any more than its wrestling with strikes to set up the throws; the reality is that it is half striking and half wrestling. Sanda 's wrestling theory and scoring is more similar to Shuajiao or even Judo scoring (emphasis on throws itself and IPPON), instead of BJJ scoring (mat work over throws) in the case of MMA. The idea is to end fights from throws in a real fight or have dominance over the opponent because you are standing and you can stomp and kick them.
Even the standard Sanda ring is more similar to wrestling sports like Sumo and Shuaijiao, where ring out scores, instead of ropes like typical kickboxing. Sanda is not a form of kickboxing.
These are standard sanshou matches:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOt_3OO0EdE&feature=youtu.be

It's quite different from kickboxing. Making it K 1 focused is just making it into a different sport.

 

[jigglyhead]

I absolutely do not think K 1 rules is representative of the two sports. It handicaps a good half of the weapons of both sports, especially Sanda. Trying to find a "common ground" might sound fair, but its almost like pitting an MMA guy with a Kickboxer in a boxing match, it might be fair, but its not even close to the original sport.



That would significantly favor MT. The fact is, you cannot use countdown system with a style that has wrestling but no ground work. It doesn't work. Takedowns would have no more than a subsidiary role to striking. But Sanda isn't a striking based art and I never liked the direction China is taking trying to conform to kickboxing over MMA. Even if you imply a MMA scoring system for takedowns, it doesn't reflect Sanda as Sanda is not based on ground control whereas ground control is how MMA scores grappling dominance. Sanda has a completely different fight theory. The idea of Sanda is to throw a guy down while you remain standing, the throws itself is a sign of damage and control. Sanda isn't really kickboxing with takedowns, one can view standard sanda as wrestling with strikes to set up the throws; but the reality is that it is half striking and half wrestling. Sanda 's wrestling theory and scoring is more similar to Shuajiao or even Judo scoring (emphasis on throws itself and IPPON), instead of BJJ scoring (mat work over throws) in the case of MMA. The idea is to end fights from throws in a real fight or have dominance over the opponent because you are standing and you can stomp and kick them to death.
Even the standard Sanda ring is based on wrestling sports like Sumo and Shuaijiao, where ring out scores, instead of ropes like typical kickboxing. Sanda is not a form of kickboxing.
These are standard sanshou matches:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOt_3OO0EdE&feature=youtu.be

It's quite different from kickboxing. Making it K 1 focused is just making it into a different sport.

I agree, it is different, but thats where the problems lie, WLF and national sanda association has been at loggerheads for years now. National Sanda has crazy funds for their programme, and WLF is some quazi-private organization albeit with heavy support from Henan TV.

The reason why K-1 style fights do well in China is because the chinese love to watch striking. It is also much easier to understand to the average Mr. Wang on the streets of Beijing. MMA was not a continued success here mainly because the viewers do not understand whats going on when they hit the ground. They also do not like to see clinching because they do can't see and understand the technical aspects of it. And even lambast their own fighters when they clinch too much.

WLF is just giving their viewers what they want and it has been successfull for them as they've been running shows consistently for 8 years now. I just can't see the way forward for Association Sanda. other than national and international sanda tournament there is hardly any way in which they are televised regularly and consistently in China let alone globally.

It's hard to deal with china national sanda, to even get a fighter from there to fight on a local chinese card you will need approval from committee its even worse if it was a fight out of china. But the fighters on national team are very good due to the massive amounts of funds poured into it.

 

[Snubnoze707]

You guys should write for Liverkick.com

 

[heavenly kaghan]

Pro Sanda is more similar to kickboxing, or rather shootboxing (its still more focused on wrestling), amateur Sanda is a different sport. In any case, the reason that its even brought up was because someone used Lumpinee stadium fights to show how Chinese aren't at top level in kickboxing. The argument was pointless in that it ignores how we are talking about two different sports. If we are talking about pure kickboxing, then don't use full Thai rules to gauge a fighter, or one might as well throw in Sanda or even MMA to prove a point.

 

[Mafanofe]

Guys, could you tell me to some good Sanda fighters to watch ?

And dudes, Muay Thai, Kickboxing and Sanda are different sports, there is no better or worse ...

Most of Muay Thai fighters more ranked in stadiums , not even fought off the thailand or other rules are not muay thai , I believe that most of the greats of Sanda , also never fought in other rules , different sports, different rules , different scores , have nothing to compare, only respect , after all is why we are here because we love combat sports .

 

[jigglyhead]

Guys, could you tell me to some good Sanda fighters to watch ?

And dudes, Muay Thai, Kickboxing and Sanda are different sports, there is no better or worse ...

Most of Muay Thai fighters more ranked in stadiums , not even fought off the thailand or other rules are not muay thai , I believe that most of the greats of Sanda , also never fought in other rules , different sports, different rules , different scores , have nothing to compare, only respect , after all is why we are here because we love combat sports .

Yes, precisely. in the end of the day we are still talking about 2 different sports. 3 actually, Muay Thai, Sanda and Kickboxing which is what the thread is about. A kickboxing event with one 3x3 FTR fight. Which is all it really is.

Before 2011, WLF only did stuff like CHINA VS REST of the world mainly Thais because of the format that was popularized by those Sanda vs Muay Thai tournament. They moved away from that because they realised its not working. Sanda and muay thai practitioners are just gonna argue about the rules till the cows come home.

They evolved and adapted more K-1 style rules. firstly without knees to the head, then later knees to the head. And it payed off greatly for them, their ratings increased tremendously, stadium turnout is also no big problem in China. I have never been to a WLF where its not sold out and the tickets are not cheap either a 100usd ticket might only get you slightly better than entry level seats.

Im sure many will agree that kickboxing rules is somewhat specifically tailored for TV broadcast and it is no coincidence that it is where the money is.