Social Anthony Mackie Claims Disney And Marvel Studios Are Trying To Change The Way Society Looks At Itself

[Iroh]

Blade was awesome. Better by far than most MCU films.

I'm a bit excited about Blade's entry into the MCU but I can't imagine he will compare well with the original. Snipes really put his own stamp on the character.

Yeah a Disney governed Blade doesn't sound like he would be done justice.

 

[Perturabo]

It’s not just that, they also want to be able to see themselves and their world view be reflected in everything.

That’s how you get “little white cuckball” complaints about Star Wars. the writers dared to have a woman and a black guy in the two lead roles and Edgelord Timmy needs too much imagination to LARP now. A universe full of aliens and there just wasn’t enough screen time for white guys

A lot of people didn’t like the blatant pandering, not just white people.
Why is complaining about a character not being black or female good but not the other way around?

 

[Ichibanner]

Superman can be a communist Russian but G-d forbid he's black.

It's a non issue because it happened outside of the regular DC Universe. DC didn't simply "make Superman a commie" in a stroke of lazy writing. They produced a story about a completely different Superman in a different Universe.

Grant Morrison did the same thing when he wrote a Black Superman. There was little to no fuss concerning it as they didn't erase the character of Superman, they simply introduced a Superman from another alternate dimension. One who was also President of the United States and held the same ideals as Superman.

Most fans don't have an issue with Falcon assuming the mantle, they don't want "Falcon America" as the only version of Cap available. Marvel has also replaced Bruce Banner, Tony Stark, Peter Parker, and Thor Odinson at some time. Their replacements were an Asian, a Black woman, a villain or a Hispanic male, and a White female.

It seems to trend in one direction. White male characters getting shelved in favor of POC in comics that aren't even "What If" scenarios. The comics tank, Marvel loses money, yet they continue doing it. Why?

 

[GoldenWolf87]

A lot of people didn’t like the blatant pandering, not just white people.
Why is complaining about a character not being black or female good but not the other way around?

The pandering is just to noticeable to see.
And what is this with Hollywood and Disney removing redheads completely from the movie/cartoon industry?

 

[Fronk]

It's a non issue because it happened outside of the regular DC Universe. DC didn't simply "make Superman a commie" in a stroke of lazy writing. They produced a story about a completely different Superman in a different Universe.

Grant Morrison did the same thing when he wrote a Black Superman. There was little to no fuss concerning it as they didn't erase the character of Superman, they simply introduced a Superman from another alternate dimension. One who was also President of the United States and held the same ideals as Superman.

Most fans don't have an issue with Falcon assuming the mantle, they don't want "Falcon America" as the only version of Cap available. Marvel has also replaced Bruce Banner, Tony Stark, Peter Parker, and Thor Odinson at some time. Their replacements were an Asian, a Black woman, a villain and / or Hispanic male, and a White female.

It seems to trend in one direction. White male characters getting shelved in favor of POC in comics that aren't even "What If" scenarios. The comics tank, Marvel loses money, yet they continue doing it. Why?

Because the "inclusiveness"-discourse has become intrinsical to modern nerd-culture. It's just basic organizational theory which states that an organization derives legitimacy not only from how effective it is but how well it fits into its institutional environment. Marvel is just adapting to the times, no one can deny that "woke" is a strong cultural force in the West, even if you then go "broke", and this seems to be even more exacerbated in nerd-culture.

So what happens? The "inclusiveness"-discourse is institutionalized. This creates a feedback loop between Marvel writers, who when pitching ideas sees a leading minority character as desirable, and the suits, who feel compelled to not turn down a minority character in favor of a cis-white man because it's what the institutional environment dictates. It's probably a lot less cutthroat and rational than you think. I've heard the same things from acquaintances who work in advertisement.

 

[Slick_36]

The pandering is just to noticeable to see.
And what is this with Hollywood and Disney removing redheads completely from the movie/cartoon industry?

 

[Eusung]

For all the "Entertainment was always political" people-

Yeah but at least they had visionary writers and directors before who were smart enough to weave the political messaging into the story. People could watch the movies without noticing it.

Now we have movies and shows with shitty writing.

 

[James Bomb]

A lot of people didn’t like the blatant pandering, not just white people.

I haven’t really seen that. It’s pretty much the usual fragility mob making the same complaints they always make. The series seems to be very successful still.

Why is complaining about a character not being black or female good but not the other way around?

It doesn’t make much since as a logical argument. If anything, there are an overwhelming amount of Caucasian heroes and characters.

And particularly for comic books as a source, since the entire industry had to push back against extreme censorship all the way until the early 1990s. The arguments were that comic books were causing kids to turn homosexual and to start idolizing figures like Superman and not police officers or their parents.

One of the big reasons that graphic novels blew up in that Clinton era was that they weren’t subject to the comics code and were shipped direct via mail, so there were less opportunities to arrest shop owners for selling them.

Up until then, comics weren’t allowed to have “obscene” messages like “it’s okay to be gay.”

Long running comic book characters have more full rewrites and plot twists than a Latin soap opera, but the only changes that seem to get the “not racists” angry is when it’s something that doesn’t pander directly to their own tastes. Funny how that always seems to happen.

 

[Perturabo]

I haven’t really seen that. It’s pretty much the usual fragility mob making the same complaints they always make. The series seems to be very successful still.
It doesn’t make much since as a logical argument. If anything, there are an overwhelming amount of Caucasian heroes and characters.

And particularly for comic books as a source, since the entire industry had to push back against extreme censorship all the way until the early 1990s. The arguments were that comic books were causing kids to turn homosexual and to start idolizing figures like Superman and not police officers or their parents.

One of the big reasons that graphic novels blew up in that Clinton era was that they weren’t subject to the comics code and were shipped direct via mail, so there were less opportunities to arrest shop owners for selling them.

Up until then, comics weren’t allowed to have “obscene” messages like “it’s okay to be gay.”

Long running comic book characters have more full rewrites and plot twists than a Latin soap opera, but the only changes that seem to get the “not racists” angry is when it’s something that doesn’t pander directly to their own tastes. Funny how that always seems to happen.

So, you’re like....extremely new to comics or what?
Comic fans are a finicky lot and always have been. These are people that freak out over dumb costume or hair cut changes, why should/would they accept political pandering in comics without complaint? They complain about everything.

 

[James Bomb]

So, you’re like....extremely new to comics or what?
Comic fans are a finicky lot and always have been. These are people that freak out over dumb costume or hair cut changes, why should/would they accept political pandering in comics without complaint? They complain about everything.

Yeah, but they generally still buy them. There’s a toxicity to these complaints that just wasn’t there before.

 

[Perturabo]

Yeah, but they generally still buy them. There’s a toxicity to these complaints that just wasn’t there before.

no, there absolutely isn’t. People just bitch about fans not liking their ridiculous changes more.
“Hey, we made your favorite character a black lesbian for no reason. You’re welcome.”

“What? Why? That’s dumb.”

“WHY ARE COMIC FANS SO HATEFUL?!”


It reminds me of people complaining about bond fans complaining about a black or female bond. We complained, loudly, about a blond bond that couldn’t drive a stick. Having a black female 007 just reeks of current year.

 

[sleepwalk]

no, there absolutely isn’t. People just bitch about fans not liking their ridiculous changes more.
“Hey, we made your favorite character a black lesbian for no reason. You’re welcome.”

“What? Why? That’s dumb.”

“WHY ARE COMIC FANS SO HATEFUL?!”


It reminds me of people complaining about bond fans complaining about a black or female bond. We complained, loudly, about a blond bond that couldn’t drive a stick. Having a black female 007 just reeks of current year.

Kind of my thing. I love Anthony Mackie and The Falcon character in comics and film. But, even in the comics, he wasn't Captain America just like Jeff Mace, John Walker, and Bucky weren't Captain Anmerica. Just like John Paul Valley and Dick Grayson weren't Batman. Just like X-23 isn't Wolverine or either Eric Masterson or Jane Foster were Thor. Just like undoing the organic, empathetic, and oh so human coming out story of Obsidian (Todd James Rice) by creating a new separate and largely unincorporated universe in which Alan Scott (aka Sentinel aka original Green Lantern) is gay and never had kids just to get a short term pop for "Green Lantern is gay!" on Buzzfeed. Fuck that. Sci-fi and comics have always been a forum for progressivism and social commentary. To exploit that as those movements become more and more commercialized should be anathema.

 

[Beechwood]

Troublingly I've been reading complaints that Disney doesn't seem to care about what is happening in China. Disney is only concerned about making money apparently.

Disney hates racism and systemic discrimination, unless it's trying to make money in China

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...tion-unless-its-trying-to-make-money-in-china

excerpt:

Disney has gone all-in on social-justice grievance politics while boasting about its inclusivity. It’s as if Disney has never met itself.

Training materials leaked from the Walt Disney Corporation cover all the predictable social justice talking points. There’s a “white privilege checklist.” The materials talk about “microaggressions” and “antiracism.” They denounce the United States as a systemically racist country that targets black people, which is the popular lie that buoys the Black Lives Matter movement. The materials also tout a “21-Day Racial Equity and Social Justice Challenge” and a “75 Things White People Can Do for Racial Justice” how-to guide, as if to drive home how insufferable all of this is.

Some might say, though, that Disney hasn’t managed to slow its own racism. Disney shrunk John Boyega’s Star Wars character for a Chinese promotional poster while removing characters played by Oscar Isaac and Lupita Nyong’o. Boyega and Nyong’o are black; Isaac is Hispanic.

For a company that prizes inclusivity, Disney’s focus on erasing or minimizing people of certain races or ethnic backgrounds to appease China is well-documented. The last bit of the company’s spine was removed in 1999 when Disney made a play to regain access to the Chinese market after the perpetually offended Chinese Communist Party threw a tantrum over the Martin Scorsese film Kundun, which was sympathetic to the Dalai Lama. Disney bribed its way back in by promising a Disney Park in China.

Since then, Disney’s focus on “inclusion” has been limited to anything that would keep it included in the Chinese market. That means minimizing Boyega and erasing other nonwhite actors from promotional posters. It also means whitewashing a Tibetan character in the Marvel film Doctor Strange. And then, of course, Disney brought back the film Mulan, which helped ease tensions with the CCP in 1999, for a live-action remake.

The United States is steeped in systemic racism, according to Disney. But if arms of the Chinese government are actively taking part in the genocide of the Uyghurs in Xinjiang? They get Disney’s thanks for letting it shoot the film in the same region as concentration camps......

 

[BreakinTheLaw]

It’s not just that, they also want to be able to see themselves and their world view be reflected in everything.

That’s how you get “little white cuckball” complaints about Star Wars. the writers dared to have a woman and a black guy in the two lead roles and Edgelord Timmy needs too much imagination to LARP now. A universe full of aliens and there just wasn’t enough screen time for white guys

The irony in this comment is magnificent.

“Edgelord”..

 

[Slick_36]

Troublingly I've been reading complaints that Disney doesn't seem to care about what is happening in China. Disney is only concerned about making money apparently.

Disney hates racism and systemic discrimination, unless it's trying to make money in China

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...tion-unless-its-trying-to-make-money-in-china

excerpt:

Disney has gone all-in on social-justice grievance politics while boasting about its inclusivity. It’s as if Disney has never met itself.

Training materials leaked from the Walt Disney Corporation cover all the predictable social justice talking points. There’s a “white privilege checklist.” The materials talk about “microaggressions” and “antiracism.” They denounce the United States as a systemically racist country that targets black people, which is the popular lie that buoys the Black Lives Matter movement. The materials also tout a “21-Day Racial Equity and Social Justice Challenge” and a “75 Things White People Can Do for Racial Justice” how-to guide, as if to drive home how insufferable all of this is.

Some might say, though, that Disney hasn’t managed to slow its own racism. Disney shrunk John Boyega’s Star Wars character for a Chinese promotional poster while removing characters played by Oscar Isaac and Lupita Nyong’o. Boyega and Nyong’o are black; Isaac is Hispanic.

For a company that prizes inclusivity, Disney’s focus on erasing or minimizing people of certain races or ethnic backgrounds to appease China is well-documented. The last bit of the company’s spine was removed in 1999 when Disney made a play to regain access to the Chinese market after the perpetually offended Chinese Communist Party threw a tantrum over the Martin Scorsese film Kundun, which was sympathetic to the Dalai Lama. Disney bribed its way back in by promising a Disney Park in China.

Since then, Disney’s focus on “inclusion” has been limited to anything that would keep it included in the Chinese market. That means minimizing Boyega and erasing other nonwhite actors from promotional posters. It also means whitewashing a Tibetan character in the Marvel film Doctor Strange. And then, of course, Disney brought back the film Mulan, which helped ease tensions with the CCP in 1999, for a live-action remake.

The United States is steeped in systemic racism, according to Disney. But if arms of the Chinese government are actively taking part in the genocide of the Uyghurs in Xinjiang? They get Disney’s thanks for letting it shoot the film in the same region as concentration camps......

Why is Disney so different from every other corporation even close to their size with a global market? You guys say minority characters are pandering and that it wouldn't work in the global market, then bitch that they market that way in China?

It makes a difference that China is an oppressive government who likes to censor. It's also a blooming market with a population that's in the process of real change. It's good for them to see Western movies and feel connected to our media. Doing business in the country means dealing with their government, which sucks but is a necessary evil at the moment because we don't want them being influenced entirely by their government.

Thing is I've been shitting on Disney for their corporate antics forever. Their monopolistic attitude that the company was founded on has never stopped. What really has creeped me out is the bubble they create for kids, conditioning them to be loyal to the brand. That shit is pure capitalism though and you guys never had a problem with that.

The difference now is you guys cry about "CRT!", but there have been race related films and television for decades. Stuff like the Color of Friendship in 2000, Gotta Kick it Up in 2002, and Proud Family in 2001 and more, that's off the top of my head. Those are way more overtly messaged than shit like Wandavision, yet y'all didn't worry until your right wing talking heads told you it was a problem.

 

[James Bomb]

no, there absolutely isn’t. People just bitch about fans not liking their ridiculous changes more.
“Hey, we made your favorite character a black lesbian for no reason. You’re welcome.”

“What? Why? That’s dumb.”

“WHY ARE COMIC FANS SO HATEFUL?!”


It reminds me of people complaining about bond fans complaining about a black or female bond. We complained, loudly, about a blond bond that couldn’t drive a stick. Having a black female 007 just reeks of current year.

The complaints are pretty similar to what they’ve always been whenever there’s women, minorities or gays in a front and center position.

it’s just the relative market power that’s changing recently. Everything that pandered to your sensibilities was always somehow okay, but you blow your lid whenever something is targeted towards someone else.

 

[James Bomb]

The irony in this comment is magnificent.

“Edgelord”..

Tough to figure out if you’re ripskater or TCK, but then again, nobody gives a shit.

 

[wlu.29]

Tough to figure out if you’re ripskater or TCK, but then again, nobody gives a shit.

@Papi Chulo is @Ripskater

 

[Abazzdeboom]

Disney is evil, they used to sexualise young childs, now they try to formate western societies into what they want.
Thats why I boycott everything this company has to offer.
They make old good Walt looks not so bad after all.

 

[Bacco]

Got to give credit when a company have principles

example Disney love money