Anthony Joshua - Does muscle make you slow?

AnotherOldGuy said:
What this means is that muscle is what allows you to accelerate. It makes you faster. However it also burns up fuel extremely quickly. The problem in sports like boxing and MMA is that its not enough to be lightening fast for 10 seconds -- you have to be able to keep a fast pace for up to half an hour. Sprinters get to lie on on the ground and get their breath back after their race. Boxers and MMA fighters don't, so having too much muscle is going to slow you down over the course of a fight.
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Yeah. While everyone loves to see power,and Knockouts, and explosiveness in combat sports, it is for the most part, an endurance sport
 
Joshua is 6'4 and 247 lbs? Wasn't Lennox Lewis around the same weight and height. Same with Klitschko.

Nobody ever said 215-220 lb, 5'10 Mike Tyson was slow.
 
I would say it is relative to every individual but AJ really "looked" as if he was weally slow and somehow had tension in his movements. My feeling is that too much muscle, passed a certain point, add tension to movement and are therefore tiring and slow you down.
 
Wow. This is not the S&P I remember. While I'm not familiar with the fight in question, I remember when the first reply would have talked about needing to lift heavy but fast in order to get/stay big and fast and how mass and speed are not necessarily inversely proportioned. Took til Ian chimed in to get a smart reply...

You can get bigger while maintained and improving speed, but it takes smart lifting, which is not as common, even among high level athletes, as it should be...
 
RedNeckJiuJitsu said:
Wow. This is not the S&P I remember. While I'm not familiar with the fight in question, I remember when the first reply would have talked about needing to lift heavy but fast in order to get/stay big and fast and how mass and speed are not necessarily inversely proportioned. Took til Ian chimed in to get a smart reply...

You can get bigger while maintained and improving speed, but it takes smart lifting, which is not as common, even among high level athletes, as it should be...
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What is smart lifting?
 
7even said:
What is smart lifting?
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Definitely not the S&P I remember...

From the FAQ:
FAQ said:
Q: Won't lifting heavy things make me really slow and inflexible?

A: NO! This is an ancient piece of nonsense that seems to never die, weights will actually make you quicker and if allied with a good stretching program will actually make you more flexible. However, if you lift slowly, through a shortened ROM and don't stretch then yeah they will make you slow and inflexible.
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The same holds true when gaining muscle mass. Lift for strength and power and you can gain speed and size at the same time. Size is a factor of diet while speed is how you lift. There will be decreased cardio if you don't increase your cardio smartly as well (stretching and LSD cardio for overall recovery and increased blood flow, programmed intervals for burst endurance and quick recovery), but good programming will fix the issues that most people run into.

One thing I like to do, in addition to lifting as fast as I can, is couple the strength movement directly with a dynamic movement. For instance, I follow my deadlifts with a few kicks on the bag, bench with some palm strikes, making sure to do the dynamic movement as fast as I can. Some choose jump squats or clapping pushups. Same idea.

But overall, just making sure to lift as fast as you can will improve your speed if you were lifting slowly before. I speak from experience. I noticed myself getting slower in sparring when I started lifting slow movement BB style. I changed to lifting fast even before I found this forum back in 2006 and saw the difference almost immediately.
 
RedNeckJiuJitsu said:
Definitely not the S&P I remember...

From the FAQ:


The same holds true when gaining muscle mass. Lift for strength and power and you can gain speed and size at the same time. Size is a factor of diet while speed is how you lift. There will be decreased cardio if you don't increase your cardio smartly as well (stretching and LSD cardio for overall recovery and increased blood flow, programmed intervals for burst endurance and quick recovery), but good programming will fix the issues that most people run into.

One thing I like to do, in addition to lifting as fast as I can, is couple the strength movement directly with a dynamic movement. For instance, I follow my deadlifts with a few kicks on the bag, bench with some palm strikes, making sure to do the dynamic movement as fast as I can. Some choose jump squats or clapping pushups. Same idea.

But overall, just making sure to lift as fast as you can will improve your speed if you were lifting slowly before. I speak from experience. I noticed myself getting slower in sparring when I started lifting slow movement BB style. I changed to lifting fast even before I found this forum back in 2006 and saw the difference almost immediately.
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I remember Vitor Belfort talking about lifting weights with a high speed pace to make yourself faster in a old interview, but I always thought that was pseudo science.
 
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7even said:
I remember Vitor Belfort talking about lifting weights with a high speed to make yourself faster in a bold interview, but I always thought that was pseudo science.
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RedNeckJiuJitsu said:
Wow. This is not the S&P I remember. While I'm not familiar with the fight in question, I remember when the first reply would have talked about needing to lift heavy but fast in order to get/stay big and fast and how mass and speed are not necessarily inversely proportioned. Took til Ian chimed in to get a smart reply...

You can get bigger while maintained and improving speed, but it takes smart lifting, which is not as common, even among high level athletes, as it should be...
Click to expand...

Well, it isn't S&P at all. It's S&C. There are no posters left from that time, and even the next generation of knowledgeable posters after that time are almost all gone.

IMO old/standard answer oversimplifies things anyway. The speed/strength curve is a thing. It's true you can be muscular and fast is you train right, but generally at the limit there is a tradeoff between one and the other. And different levels of muscularity are probably optimal for different points on the curve. If you want to be very high strength and good speed, like a shotputter, more muscle mass is almost certainly optimal. If you want to be very high speed and good strength, like a javelin thrower, less muscle mass is almost certainly optimal.

So, as I understand it, yes you can be fast and muscular. But an athlete could be too muscular for his or her sport, impairing speed.
 
I believe for striking. Strength is one of least important attributes. Grappling on the other hand, strength is needed.
 
gspieler said:
The fastest, most explosive people on the planet are all very muscular. Hypertrophy only makes you slower if you ignore the neurological aspects of training for speed/power. With muscle mass, obviously there is a point of diminished returns, but the point still stands.
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One of the only decent posts in the whole thread
 
NoSmilez said:
I believe for striking. Strength is one of least important attributes. Grappling on the other hand, strength is needed.
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Yeah strength work has a better carryover to grappling

If anything, typically being lanky works better for striking than being stocky
 
It depends on what ratio you give or the division of your training. If you lift more as compared to your regular training (spar, roll, cardio etc) then yes its not good otherwise lifting gonna help you believe me. :)
 
We're talking about hybridization of the body's fast and slow twitch hypertrophy vs power sprint speed vs distance

I've attempted to hybrid my physique like say a Diamond Ott since my time in The ARMY...it can be done but it is very difficult.

We all want to be jacked. bench, dead, and squat big numbers. be shredded, have endurance cardio and burst be flexible

It can be done

the highest level wrestlers and gymnasts seem in many instances to have successfully hybridized them selves

the rest of us keep trying
 
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