International Antarctica is melting faster than we thought

[Jack Stevonovich]

So what are you personally doing to correct the situation?

Solar Panels on your roof? Drive an electric car?

I don't think it is about making it personally responsible. I.E. a culture of shaming each other into recycling and buying organic.

The issue is bigger. We have to change the idea that capitalism is the final form of civilization itself.

Not because of any idealistic reasons but because we can't have an exponential growth model in a finite world.

It is just that simple.

Which means:

CAPITALISM IS AN UNSUSTAINABLE UTOPIAN FANTASY.

 

[gatchaman]

Lookie here, yall fools are missing the point yo.

The sea levels will rise. Eventually Displacing like 60-90% of Human settlements. In our life time their will have to be mass Migrations in the 10's of Millions at least.

Can Humanity survive it yeah sure but shit is going to get UGLY!

I can also play the game of hypothetical doomsday scenarios, but my scenarios are better supported by the science.

For the past 0.5M-1M years, there have been 100,000-year Milankovitch cycles of approximately 80,000-year glacial periods and 20,000-year interglacial periods. All of human civilization has existed in one of these interglacial periods. Previously, my entire country of Canada was covered by the Laurentide ice sheet. As we are approaching the end of the present interglacial period, I expect the ice sheet to return and displace human settlements. Timing of Milankovitch cycles are not understood enough for me to predict whether this will happen in my lifetime or in thousands of years.

A much better scenario than a return to the glacial period would be a return to the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum, a time which has left fossils of palm trees in Canada and even crocodiles in the polar regions. Fossils of our primate ancestors indicate that they spread to new regions of the Earth during this time. Imagine the benefit to a growing human population of opening up the two largest countries (Russia and Canada) to agriculture.

 

[Jack Stevonovich]

I can also play the game of hypothetical doomsday scenarios, but my scenarios are better supported by the science.

For the past 0.5M-1M years, there have been 100,000-year Milankovitch cycles of approximately 80,000-year glacial periods and 20,000-year interglacial periods. All of human civilization has existed in one of these interglacial periods. Previously, my entire country of Canada was covered by the Laurentide ice sheet. As we are approaching the end of the present interglacial period, I expect the ice sheet to return and displace human settlements. Timing of Milankovitch cycles are not understood enough for me to predict whether this will happen in my lifetime or in thousands of years.

A much better scenario than a return to the glacial period would be a return to the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum, a time which has left fossils of palm trees in Canada and even crocodiles in the polar regions. Fossils of our primate ancestors indicate that they spread to new regions of the Earth during this time. Imagine the benefit to a growing human population of opening up the two largest countries (Russia and Canada) to agriculture.

The second scenario sounds cool but the logistics of the mass migrations holy shit!

 

[Shoemaker]

They aren’t really sure wtf is going on, it’s growing faster in winters than before now. But still melting faster in summers.

Liquid nitrogen will stop it!

I guess James Cameron was warning us about climate change the whole time.

 

[Cuauhtemoc]

I think the issue is more localized than that.

Sure we have "nice climate" now that we like but we cannot hold climate static nor should we. The climate was "nice" during the Climate Optimum phase and the planet was lush and livable even if the coast lines and geography were a little different.

the big issue now is that citizens have built homes on land in low lying areas that are at risk with climate change and they expect and elect gov't officials to protect them from that change to protect their homes and investment. I get why they might want that but that might be an impractical reason to think we can or should stop natural climate change which could be far closer to the planets climate in the Optimal phase than it has been in this post Meteor and Volcanic cooler stage.

this is the only era of man where people would not simply relocate to greener pastures when such change occurs. And again I get it, due to countries and borders and investment it is not the same as other era's where people were nomadic.

Poor Bangladesh is going to disappear.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Nothing about predictive science is that simple.

They don't truly know, but they can give their best estimations.

 

[Jack Stevonovich]

Poor Bangladesh is going to disappear.

Well there goes my cheap T-shirts! FUCK!

 

[Farmer Br0wn]

I don't think it is about making it personally responsible. I.E. a culture of shaming each other into recycling and buying organic.

The issue is bigger. We have to change the idea that capitalism is the final form of civilization itself.

Not because of any idealistic reasons but because we can't have an exponential growth model in a finite world.

It is just that simple.

Which means:

CAPITALISM IS AN UNSUSTAINABLE UTOPIAN FANTASY.

Capitalism allows the price mechanism to operate the most freely. The price mechanism is the best allocator of scarce resources.

 

[Jack Stevonovich]

Capitalism allows the price mechanism to operate the most freely. The price mechanism is the best allocator of scarce resources.

look, I like my cheap T-shirts. Ok, trust me.
But how I am going to get them without a Bangladesh?

 

[PG29 red0 Jr]

Are you in disagreement with the majority of climate scientists?

 

[Jack Stevonovich]

 

[no fat chicks]

I can also play the game of hypothetical doomsday scenarios, but my scenarios are better supported by the science.

For the past 0.5M-1M years, there have been 100,000-year Milankovitch cycles of approximately 80,000-year glacial periods and 20,000-year interglacial periods. All of human civilization has existed in one of these interglacial periods. Previously, my entire country of Canada was covered by the Laurentide ice sheet. As we are approaching the end of the present interglacial period, I expect the ice sheet to return and displace human settlements. Timing of Milankovitch cycles are not understood enough for me to predict whether this will happen in my lifetime or in thousands of years.

A much better scenario than a return to the glacial period would be a return to the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum, a time which has left fossils of palm trees in Canada and even crocodiles in the polar regions. Fossils of our primate ancestors indicate that they spread to new regions of the Earth during this time. Imagine the benefit to a growing human population of opening up the two largest countries (Russia and Canada) to agriculture.

You forgot to mention how there was a massive die off of ocean life because of ocean acidification and temperatures increasing in equatorial regions.

 

[no fat chicks]

Then present a paper that runs counter to the most acceptable modeling we have and flip the field on its head

"The temperature was unstable in the past" is a shaky argument.

 

[Jack Stevonovich]

Then present a paper that runs counter to the most acceptable modeling we have and flip the field on its head

No, because he wants to beat you with technical jargon you don't understand!

 

[ShinkanPo]

We should just have ISIS space station suck up all the extra water with a straw

Space Muslims might suck something else

 

[MikeMcMann]

I can also play the game of hypothetical doomsday scenarios, but my scenarios are better supported by the science.

For the past 0.5M-1M years, there have been 100,000-year Milankovitch cycles of approximately 80,000-year glacial periods and 20,000-year interglacial periods. All of human civilization has existed in one of these interglacial periods. Previously, my entire country of Canada was covered by the Laurentide ice sheet. As we are approaching the end of the present interglacial period, I expect the ice sheet to return and displace human settlements. Timing of Milankovitch cycles are not understood enough for me to predict whether this will happen in my lifetime or in thousands of years.

A much better scenario than a return to the glacial period would be a return to the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum, a time which has left fossils of palm trees in Canada and even crocodiles in the polar regions. Fossils of our primate ancestors indicate that they spread to new regions of the Earth during this time. Imagine the benefit to a growing human population of opening up the two largest countries (Russia and Canada) to agriculture.

Yup.

More land, and more arable land and more bountiful resources (lumber, etc) have been present during these warmer cycles such as the Climate Optimum period. Northern Canada, Russia and China will gain far more land than will likely be lost in all coastal cities.

The big problem is we have evolved to be very possessive of our borders and people with roots and investments in property do not want to be forced to move and start over. And I get that. But the planets natural cycles don't care about that. And people demanding gov't protect them from such changes won't make the planets natural cycles listen.

All that said man should be aware of how we impact the natural cycles (accelerate and decelerate) as those time frames may or may not be impactful.

 

[SaiWa]

Capitalism allows the price mechanism to operate the most freely. The price mechanism is the best allocator of scarce resources.

is that why big pharm has been double triple or quadrupling their price for drugs in the last decade because they are scarce??

lol

 

[no fat chicks]

I can also play the game of hypothetical doomsday scenarios, but my scenarios are better supported by the science.

For the past 0.5M-1M years, there have been 100,000-year Milankovitch cycles of approximately 80,000-year glacial periods and 20,000-year interglacial periods. All of human civilization has existed in one of these interglacial periods. Previously, my entire country of Canada was covered by the Laurentide ice sheet. As we are approaching the end of the present interglacial period, I expect the ice sheet to return and displace human settlements. Timing of Milankovitch cycles are not understood enough for me to predict whether this will happen in my lifetime or in thousands of years.

A much better scenario than a return to the glacial period would be a return to the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum, a time which has left fossils of palm trees in Canada and even crocodiles in the polar regions. Fossils of our primate ancestors indicate that they spread to new regions of the Earth during this time. Imagine the benefit to a growing human population of opening up the two largest countries (Russia and Canada) to agriculture.

A Canadian climate denier.

Well knowing this issue isn't really based on science and is mostly political for most deniers I shall wager a bet you live in Alberta and are involved in oil and gas?

 

[Jack Stevonovich]

Yup.

More land, and more arable land and more bountiful resources (lumber, etc) have been present during these warmer cycles such as the Climate Optimum period. Northern Canada, Russia and China will gain far more land than will likely be lost in all coastal cities.

The big problem is we have evolved to be very possessive of our borders and people with roots and investments in property do not want to be forced to move and start over. And I get that. But the planets natural cycles don't care about that. And people demanding gov't protect them from such changes won't make the planets natural cycles listen.

All that said man should be aware of how we impact the natural cycles (accelerate and decelerate) as those time frames may or may not be impactful.

That is going to be kind of difficult to do and maintain democracy.

 

[luckyshot]

They truly don't know...that is very true. While I have no qualms that things are going bad for the planet I also don't think the "doom and gloom" bullshit does anybody any good. Always suggesting the worst possible situations when they rarely, if ever, come to fruition is what makes people question the legitimacy of scientific studies...and especially so when it comes to global warming ---> climate change. When these models predict the worst over and over, and the worst doesn't actually happen, then it makes people very skeptical. Especially when reports like this only suggest that the reduction of fossil fuels is the only answer. That is an entire world paradigm shift that would require massive shifts of power to occur globally...not going to happen in the near future.

This shit is in like the last two years:

Florida:

California:

Puerto Rico:

Houston: