Anderson Silva (2015) vs. Royce Gracie (2007) Which failed test hurt MMA more?

I didn't know Royce cheated, with that said, he competed in a time where I think 99% of fighters did...
 
Neither of them "hurt MMA" in any conceivable way because most people in the world aren't pretentious ***s
 
Neither.

Anderson was a post-prime fighter who had brutally lost two fights then beat a part-time fighter full-time stoner in a mediocre performance by both men.
He then tarnished his whole legacy past his shelf life.

Royce was well past relevancy in the sport and made no statement by decisioning his family nemesis from PRIDE FC in a bout that clearly needed two more rounds to satisfy Sakuraba.

What would hurt the sport would be the reigning champion testing positive.
 
Neither of them "hurt MMA" in any conceivable way because most people in the world aren't pretentious ***s

Anderson's test "hurt" MMA in that it lost him a lot of fans and reduced his ability to draw. It also damaged his image which essentially put a black eye on the sport as a whole given that he was one of the premier faces of the sport.

It would be like Lebron testing positive for steroids. Parents aren't crazy about letting their kids worship heroes who cheat. The difference is, the NBA's testing is even more of a joke than the testing that Anderson had to pass so we know we'll never see a real NBA star test positive.
 
Anderson.

Royce... let's be honest, we all know who the better fighter is in that rivalry and his excuse of "nasal spray" for pissing so hot it almost melted the cup made it a great joke.
 
Anderson's test "hurt" MMA in that it lost him a lot of fans and reduced his ability to draw. It also damaged his image which essentially put a black eye on the sport as a whole given that he was one of the premier faces of the sport.

It would be like Lebron testing positive for steroids. Parents aren't crazy about letting their kids worship heroes who cheat. The difference is, the NBA's testing is even more of a joke than the testing that Anderson had to pass so we know we'll never see a real NBA star test positive.

Are you fucking kidding me? "I was gonna order that anderson silva UFC, but now that he tested positive for steroids, I don't think so..." No one will ever fucking say that.

There is no "sport as a whole"

And even if you argue that him being suspended and being able to fight less "hurts the sport" then you're a goddamn retard because it just makes an opportunity for new star fighters to emerge.

"Parents aren't crazy about letting their kids worship..." let me just stop you right there. Like I said, most people aren't pretentious ***s. If you are, fine, but understand that most people aren't.
 
Andy's cheating got about a hundred times the publicity Royce did.
 
Neither. It's amazing how most people are ignorant when it comes to PEDs. The sport is not clean and never was. Physique means nothing. Anderson looked the exact same physically when he popped hot as his UFC debut. He messed up his cycle/timing. He was never clean
 
Are you fucking kidding me? "I was gonna order that anderson silva UFC, but now that he tested positive for steroids, I don't think so..." No one will ever fucking say that.

There is no "sport as a whole"

And even if you argue that him being suspended and being able to fight less "hurts the sport" then you're a goddamn retard because it just makes an opportunity for new star fighters to emerge.

"Parents aren't crazy about letting their kids worship..." let me just stop you right there. Like I said, most people aren't pretentious ***s. If you are, fine, but understand that most people aren't.

The "new stars" to emerge argument doesn't hold water because his presence as a star was primarily exclusive to his division. Weidman didn't transcend because of the fall of Silva. Cain and Jones didn't suddenly break out either.

McGregor and Rousey would still have drawn their own fan bases regardless of Silva being around or not.

Just because there's an "opportunity" for a new star to emerge doesn't change the fact that there will be some lost fans whenever you have scandals like this. Just look at MLB and the Barry Bonds scandal or Tiger Woods and his cheating scandal. Or the NFL and the Ray Rice scandal.

There is never a guarantee that you'll get those lost fans back. And in any form of business it is always harder to create a new customer than to retain an already existing customer. You think it was coincidental that the UFC spent so much money partnering with USADA? Or that NSAC is suddenly cracking down on PED's?

The value of your brand as a sport has real value. And your athletes represent that value in human form by projecting your principles and values into the marketplace. When there is a disconnect between the two, between the values of your brand and the faces of your brand, it causes real damage.

I'm sure that you couldn't care less and that you kept on watching, but you're not everyone. Stuff like this means something to some people. Just because it doesn't mean a lot to you or me in terms of whether I'll watch the UFC, there's all kinds of people in the world that hold their athletes to a different standard.
 
100% Anderson. The greatest fighter ever now looks like a liar, a cheater, and a hypocrite.


Gracie on the other hand, was the best grappler when nobody knew what grappling was.

This. Anderson defended his title so many times, for a long time couldn't be knocked out, made all his opponents look bad. For all intents and purposes he came off as immortal, superhuman and so when the drug test came along people started to think " Oh! that's why he was so good and no one could touch him for such a long time."

I wouldn't be surprised if he was using PEDs throughout his UFC career, he did extraordinary things that if you think about it makes the PED claim quite plausible.
 
Shoul have compared it with wand running away and then Chael popping and blaming it on wanting a kid. Then you got a good poll.
 
Anderson Silva failing was the worst but best thing to happen in MMA. It was so bad that it changed the whole game. Now testing is super strict because of it. So we got to thank him.
 
Objectively it's Anderson Silva. There is no question about it. He made a fool out of himself and the UFC.

But personally I'll always be pissed of about Royce roiding against Saku. Any other fight and it wouldn't have bothered me but against Saku? And somehow that fight is still not overturned. BS.
 
The "new stars" to emerge argument doesn't hold water because his presence as a star was primarily exclusive to his division. Weidman didn't transcend because of the fall of Silva. Cain and Jones didn't suddenly break out either.

McGregor and Rousey would still have drawn their own fan bases regardless of Silva being around or not.

Just because there's an "opportunity" for a new star to emerge doesn't change the fact that there will be some lost fans whenever you have scandals like this. Just look at MLB and the Barry Bonds scandal or Tiger Woods and his cheating scandal. Or the NFL and the Ray Rice scandal.

There is never a guarantee that you'll get those lost fans back. And in any form of business it is always harder to create a new customer than to retain an already existing customer. You think it was coincidental that the UFC spent so much money partnering with USADA? Or that NSAC is suddenly cracking down on PED's?

The value of your brand as a sport has real value. And your athletes represent that value in human form by projecting your principles and values into the marketplace. When there is a disconnect between the two, between the values of your brand and the faces of your brand, it causes real damage.

I'm sure that you couldn't care less and that you kept on watching, but you're not everyone. Stuff like this means something to some people. Just because it doesn't mean a lot to you or me in terms of whether I'll watch the UFC, there's all kinds of people in the world that hold their athletes to a different standard.
In order for someone to become a star, they have to fight. All I claim is that when Anderson isn't main eventing, someome else will. So yes, him being suspended/injured/retired creates an opportunity for new fighters to gain media attention.

MMA fans are going to watch regardless. Casual fans have no idea that he tested positive, and if they did, it doesn't matter as he was done main eventing long ago. The tiny amount of *********s out there feigning outrage over this are not a large enough population to merit discussion.
 
Truth be, this crap gets swept under the rug and forgotten about by majority of fans...
 
Neither.

Jon Jones cocaine fueled joy riding on the other hand....
 
Anderson.

Nobody in their right mind thinks that Royce was using PED's at UFC 1. People have to remember that the Gracies had a fanatical belief that BJJ was all you needed to beat anyone, any time, regardless of size. The prize was only $50K and they truly believed they would win given the people they had in the tournament.

People start using PED's when they either believe they have a lot to lose or when they aren't confident that they aren't going to win. Until the later UFC's, Royce had no reason to believe that he wasn't going to win on pure BJJ alone.

And it wasn't until he went to the bigger fight circuit that significant amounts of money was on the line. I personally believe that was probably when he started to take PED's... when the BJJ gap was closing fast and other more well rounded and superior athletes had nullified his initial skill advantage.

Anderson unfortunately operated in an era of highly competitive multi-disciplined athletes. Did he start out taking PED's or just take them when he got older? We'll never know. And that's the problem, you can't really point at a single point and say "Aha! That's when he must have started!" because there's really no point in his career when there wouldn't have been an incentive to use PED's either for additional strength or training recovery.

I agree.

A lot of people on here seem to think the Ghandi version of royce was on PED's though.
 
Back
Top