Anderson Silva (2015) vs. Royce Gracie (2007) Which failed test hurt MMA more?

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by Frank23, Aug 12, 2015.

  1. Frank23

    Frank23 Enter Sandman Belt Platinum Member

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    These are two of the most accomplished MMA fighters of all time. Which failed test hurt the sport of MMA more?

    UFC Hall of Famer Royce Gracie tested positive for anabolic steroids after beating Kazushi Sakuraba at Dynamite!! USA in 2007.

    [​IMG]

    Royce Gracie MMA Stats, Pictures, News, Videos, Biography - Sherdog.com

    Anderson Silva failed a drug test in 2015 before he fought Nick Diaz at UFC 183.

    [​IMG]

    Anderson Silva MMA Stats, Pictures, News, Videos, Biography - Sherdog.com

    Update:

    Attorney: Anderson Silva's failed drug test result of tainted 'sexual performance' drugs

    http://mmajunkie.com/2015/08/attorn...st-result-of-tainted-sexual-performance-drugs





    How much does this hurt the sport?
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2015
  2. Frank23

    Frank23 Enter Sandman Belt Platinum Member

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    I think that they did.
     
  3. ReebokFTW

    ReebokFTW White Belt

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    100% Anderson. The greatest fighter ever now looks like a liar, a cheater, and a hypocrite.


    Gracie on the other hand, was the best grappler when nobody knew what grappling was.
     
  4. TheComebackKid

    TheComebackKid Titanium Belt

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    It what way?
     
  5. Royce was completely irrelevant when he failed. Was hardly news.
     
  6. TheComebackKid

    TheComebackKid Titanium Belt

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    Heres how it works. Sports that turn a blind eye to PED use do just fine. Sports that try to crack down by highlighting the PED use while demonizing their own athletes....kill their own popularity.
     
  7. FlowWithTheGo23

    FlowWithTheGo23 Black Belt

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    Royce's failure wasn't as big of a blip on the radar when it happened. A lot of people still don't even know about it.
     
  8. riitzni

    riitzni Silver Belt

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    So you've gone from saying that you don't think Silva didn't anything wrong and don't consider him a cheater to saying that it's the UFC's and MMA in general's fault for having PED testing in the first place?

    Well I guess that's progress. It sounds like you're finally getting around to moving past Denial into Anger.
     
  9. Ehrmantraut

    Ehrmantraut Real American Platinum Member

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    Frank is literally the only person who would think of this. Really scraping the bottom of the barrel here.
     
  10. Rick Sanchez

    Rick Sanchez Guest

    pretty much this
     
  11. Malthian

    Malthian Purple Belt

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    Anderson.

    Nobody in their right mind thinks that Royce was using PED's at UFC 1. People have to remember that the Gracies had a fanatical belief that BJJ was all you needed to beat anyone, any time, regardless of size. The prize was only $50K and they truly believed they would win given the people they had in the tournament.

    People start using PED's when they either believe they have a lot to lose or when they aren't confident that they aren't going to win. Until the later UFC's, Royce had no reason to believe that he wasn't going to win on pure BJJ alone.

    And it wasn't until he went to the bigger fight circuit that significant amounts of money was on the line. I personally believe that was probably when he started to take PED's... when the BJJ gap was closing fast and other more well rounded and superior athletes had nullified his initial skill advantage.

    Anderson unfortunately operated in an era of highly competitive multi-disciplined athletes. Did he start out taking PED's or just take them when he got older? We'll never know. And that's the problem, you can't really point at a single point and say "Aha! That's when he must have started!" because there's really no point in his career when there wouldn't have been an incentive to use PED's either for additional strength or training recovery.
     
  12. MMun

    MMun Black Belt

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    I'd say Anderson but it's too recent. Come back in a few years and ask, you'll get more nuanced answers.
     
  13. mkt

    mkt Silver Belt

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    Anderson and it's not even close. Royce was a pioneer, but not "one of the most accomplished MMA fighters of all time." He had a 13-month win streak in the early UFCs (Nov. 1993 to Dec. 1994). That's it. And Rorian made sure he didn't invite the likes of Oleg Taktarov or Marco Ruas to those early events.

    After his rematch/draw with Ken Shamrock in 1995, he left the UFC. After that, his NHB/MMA record was 2 wins, 2 losses and 2 draws (not counting has last cheating "win" over Sak).
     
  14. TheComebackKid

    TheComebackKid Titanium Belt

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    I never said anything of the sort. I have explained why I think PED use in general is different than your typical cheating and how I don't view it that way but that is completely independent of Silva.

    So yeah, stop making things up Riitz.

    The thread is about failed drug tests hurting the sport. I think sports who highlight the ped use that all athletes engage in is kind of shooting themselves in the foot. They basically scream to the world that their athletes are frauds and pieces of shit because they do what most athletes in all sports do. Thats what hurts the sport not the knowledge that someone used roids.
     
  15. phoenixikki

    phoenixikki Brown Belt

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    Royce was already at the final stage of his career. Anderson Silva absolutely not.
     
  16. effedup

    effedup Silver Belt

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    Obviously Anderson. As someone who always advocated for a clean sport and then denied to the bitter end in a awkward way that he took them. It was a huge hit for fans that were behind him.
     
  17. maximus874

    maximus874 Green Belt

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    I didn't even know Royce failed until a couple of years ago and I am a dang Royce student (indirectly and he only comes to the school a few times a year). No one was paying attention. Plus he wasn't using when he did all his great stuff. Anderson hurt a lot, but not really MMA, it just hurt Anderson. His image is now tainted forever.
     
  18. Jopo

    Jopo Silver Belt

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    No one gave a shit at the time when Royce tested positive we all just laughed at him. Anderson fans on the other hand went fuckin ape shit from full on insane denial to acting like god just died.
     
  19. Verace

    Verace Silver Belt

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    u missed limp dick in there
     
  20. TASTEofmySCYTHE

    TASTEofmySCYTHE Silver Belt

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    Anderson... no question.
     
  21. ReebokFTW

    ReebokFTW White Belt

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    Eh, it happens to everyone.
     
  22. Kalmah

    Kalmah Gold Belt

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    Who gives a fuck. Your favourite fighter(s) are probably on the gear and most fighters and people in the business say the same thing.
     
  23. Verace

    Verace Silver Belt

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    wut ???

    how was anderson not at the end of his carreer ?
     
  24. daniel san

    daniel san Brown Belt

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    Is this even debatable? Did anyone give a shit when Royce tested positive? I was disappointed with him but him testing positive probably had zero impact whatsoever on MMA as a sport. If anything, the fight showed how much MMA and more may have realized that you may be amongst the best in on area but that's not good enough.

    I'd also have to say that Silva testing positive really hasn't had that much of an impact on MMA as a sport. It will have an impact on future PPV sells as Silva has lost fans (and also lost fans with his terrible performance against Diaz), but by no means is Silva testing positive something that has significantly hurt the sport. The increased PED testing has an impact of course as more of the guys will get caught but we can't talk about a specific case like Silva having major impact.
     
  25. chickenlip

    chickenlip Navy blue belt

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    Anderson just came off a terrible injury so I don't think its as bad as its made out to be. IMO it doesn't tarnish his legacy too much because of the situation. If he had been caught at some other point in his career I would have a totally different opinion
     
  26. Amerikuracana

    Amerikuracana Yellow Card Yellow Card

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    Neither. They all do it. Everybody but dorks know it. Nobody with a brain really cares. Hopefully everybody goes clean around the same time, that would be fair. We'll see.
     
  27. ReebokFTW

    ReebokFTW White Belt

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    He had just stated that he wanted to fight for another 8 years.
     
  28. Ed Casey

    Ed Casey Banned Banned

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    had same laugh(thought)
     
  29. Darkart

    Darkart Brown Belt

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    How can Anderson have failed a pre-fight drug test and the commissions till let the fight go on? Didn't he also test positive in the post-fight drug test?

    WTF is the point of drug testing if the fight goes ahead as scheduled should a guy test positive in training?
     
  30. JKS

    JKS 77+&--#rT....

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    No one really cared about Royce and soon enough they will forget about Andersons
     
  31. Goatenstein

    Goatenstein Brown Belt

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    Greatest ever? LOL
     
  32. fandangler101

    fandangler101 Brown Belt

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    I didn't start watching MMA until 2010. The Anderson test broke my heart!
     
  33. Verace

    Verace Silver Belt

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    come on dude...

    everybody knows this is just a marketing thing
     
  34. BreadnButter

    BreadnButter Brown Belt

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    Anderson no question.
     
  35. caliboi74lv

    caliboi74lv Black Belt

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    Just because he wants to fight 8 more years doesn't mean anything..before Weidman, I would have said it's possible.. looked sharp against Belfort with that kick..but the injury..IDK..didn't look great against Diaz
     
  36. Drake

    Drake Guest

    Definitely Andy.
     
  37. Royhalibut

    Royhalibut Blue Belt

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    Anderson's hurt more, because his career is tarnished. I still think he used it specifically to help heal that horrific leg break. Why couldn't he have just said that ??

    What Gracie did was unbeleivable, not really a big deal if he got busted at a time when probably many other fighters were using, and he was at the tail end of his career anyways.
     
  38. fortheo

    fortheo Steel Belt

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    The answer is always the most recent occurrence.
     
  39. Candy Routure

    Candy Routure Brown Belt

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    Royce's failure hurt Saku fans more than MMA as a whole. At least that's how I felt!

    War Saku!!
     
  40. myjohnson9

    myjohnson9 GOAT

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    Royce didn't happen in the ufc and most people didn't even know about it
     

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