An example of how far MMA has to go in the striking

It's not, actually. The difficulty is in the timing and that doesn't change. Of course expecting MMA fighters to have similar boxing skills to someone like Andre Ward is unrealistic. There is plenty of criticism within MMA of MMA fighters not taking the time to actually learn how to box, though.

Too much to learn. When we see guys that are insanely good at a striking discipline , it tends to be Muay Thai or Karate. In which you can take advantage of kicks, elbows, etc. Some could say it's more applicable to MMA and its general fighting style. Anderson and Lyoto/Wonderboy are examples. There are rarely any good boxers in MMA, if any.
 
Expected defensive reaction from the segment of MMA fans who have no clue about other types of fightsport and resent them..

In reality, good boxing skills in themselves are not an impediment to defending TDs, kicks, elbows, etc. In fact, it's quite the opposite. Yes, skills need to be learned and tactics adjusted but that is not a reason to dismiss boxing.
You can't box with the same stance, technique, etc, in MMA that you can in pure boxing because there is so much more at play. It changes things and the boxing does not translate perfectly.
 
Too much to learn. When we see guys that are insanely good at a striking discipline , it tends to be Muay Thai or Karate. In which you can take advantage of kicks, elbows, etc. Some could say it's more applicable to MMA and its general fighting style. Anderson and Lyoto/Wonderboy are examples. There are rarely any good boxers in MMA, if any.

Mostly because there are essentially no examples of good male boxers trying MMA. I'd also argue that Anderson relied on his boxing skills more than anything else during his UFC run.
 
You can't box with the same stance, technique, etc, in MMA that you can in pure boxing because there is so much more at play. It changes things and the boxing does not translate perfectly.

I'm not talking about it translating 1:1 though right? I thought I was pretty clear about that.
 
There's truth to a person not being able to learn everything but lets be honest. A lot of mma guys don't know how to train. You have a bunch of gyms with talented guys who kill each other everyday, then they get really good and win a title and everyone thinks "Oh that's how you do it, you kill yourself." You saw this with Chute Box and AKA. But really technique and proper training will come out on top 9/10 times and those guys will last longer in the sport. As far as boxing it's been figured out but a lot of people ignore it. Heavy to the body and light to the head. If you attack the head everyday you'll lose your chin. But on the flip side if you don't spar a lot you won't be as sharp. If you spar a lot but go light, it transfers into the cage and you see guys throwing baby knees and baby punches. Guys like Bas figured it out. A lot of mma guys spend a ton of time training stand up, they just do it wrong. Look to who does it best, thai fighters and guys from Holland. Thai fighters train a lot of technique. They don't go hard in training. Dutch guys go harder in training but not towards the head. One reason their training is harder is they don't fight every weekend like Thai fighters. The Diaz bros don't get knocked out because they train correctly. I think they would get knocked out though by an elite kickboxer. But there really aren't any in mma. Mma is full of brawlers and wrestlers. That's why a guy like Conor can rise. He has good offensive boxing and some good kicks. He goes through guys like butter because they don't know what they are doing on the feet. Conor lost to Diaz because Diaz has sound boxing, is bigger, and probably a lot more reasons that hard to define. People call Conor over rated and lucky but it's a joke, Conor has some really good boxing and others just don't in his division. The whole UFC is wide open to an elite kickboxer with either really good jujitsu or defensive wrestling.

It's similar to wrestling. A lot of time elite wrestlers aren't killing themselves in practice. They drill technique more than they live wrestle. And a lot of times their partner doesn't resist 100%. It's to build that muscle memory of perfection. Their technique becomes absolutely perfect. They will beat the tougher guy who killed himself in training with their technique, and that guy who trained like a complete savage will have his body fall apart. Once in awhile those savages come out on top, but it's more common for the best technique to win.
 
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Damn you really see how much torque Mir put into that punch from this angle, Todd fell over like he ran face first into oncoming traffic lol
 
Damn you really see how much torque Mir put into that punch from this angle, Todd fell over like he ran face first into oncoming traffic lol

Pretty underrated KO

Not only did Mir blast him but Duffee went face first into it. It's no wonder he was out for a WHILE
 
Pretty underrated KO

Not only did Mir blast him but Duffee went face first into it. It's no wonder he was out for a WHILE
I was a little carried away at the time and in retrospect it wasn't QUITE that good of a performance, but at the time I was jumping out of my seat because it seemed like Mir had just Zulu'd Duffee. He got right in the pocket, slipped or blocked everything Todd threw, beat him up with a few hard punches and baited him into running straight into a hook thrown from South America.
 
Ward doesn't have to worry about takedowns, clinching, kicks, knees, elbows, JBJ finger pokes or GSP laying on him. He has the freedom to be brilliant with his hands.

And on top of being a great boxer, he spent most of his career against people that had no business being in the ring with him.
 
I was a little carried away at the time and in retrospect it wasn't QUITE that good of a performance, but at the time I was jumping out of my seat because it seemed like Mir had just Zulu'd Duffee. He got right in the pocket, slipped or blocked everything Todd threw, beat him up with a few hard punches and baited him into running straight into a hook thrown from South America.

I thought people underrated the performance personally. People thought it was a drunken bar fight with "two guys hurting each other."

That's not how I interpreted it. Mir wobbled the fuck out of Duffee like 3 times in the opening seconds, slipped a lot of his punches then KO'd him in devastating fashion. The only time Mir really got hit real well was right before the KO, but I don't think he was hurt or anything. He was coherent enough to another overhand right after lol

Not the most technical performance by him, but I was very pleasantly surprised by how motivated and fast he looked for a HW
 


When I see this little example of good boxing by Andre Ward it reminds me of how far striking in MMA has to travel to become good. You could watch 1000 UFC fights and never see something this technical standing.

1)Catch the Jab.
2)Counter straight off the catch with the same hand. "catch and shoot".
3)as soon as he lands the straight he immediately sees his opponent wants to counter with a left hook, so he picks up the same hand he "caught and countered" with and brings it up for defense while simultaneously rolling his head to take power off the punch. the videos stops short but it would have shown Ward coming back with a left hand counter that fell a little short. The coordination and reaction time that it takes to pull this off is ridiculous.

In boxing, you fight in close range a lot and for a lot longer. So these technical little exchanges are much more important and guys get super good at them.

In MMA, you got 2 things going on. First, the effective range of strikes is much wider, so there's much more emphasis on footwork and in-out movement. If a guy was super good in the punching range like Ward, it would be pretty easy for guys to work around that and avoid that range. Second thing is smaller, lighter gloves make the blocks less effective and parries much harder. Ward would still be super sick with MMA gloves and he'd probably KO anyone who stood there and traded with him, but if he relied on the same blocking and parrying he does now, punches would find their way through. But most guys would just strike from the outside and take him down if he tried to close the distance.

It's just the kind of skill that wouldn't form itself naturally in MMA. It could be a useful tool but it could also be worked around, so you'd need to bring more to the table than just that. I tend to think the most effective techniques are the ones that evolve naturally in the sport, not the ones that evolved naturally in another sport. That's like a round peg in a square hole. That's kind of how I feel about some of these techniques. They fit with boxing, but we'll have our own techniques that fit only with MMA that are just as skillful and beautiful. I think the striking in MMA kicks ass, personally. I enjoy the striking in MMA more than the striking in boxing or kickboxing.
 
I thought people underrated the performance personally. People thought it was a drunken bar fight with "two guys hurting each other."

That's not how I interpreted it. Mir wobbled the fuck out of Duffee like 3 times in the opening seconds, slipped a lot of his punches then KO'd him in devastating fashion. The only time Mir really got hit real well was right before the KO, but I don't think he was hurt or anything. He was coherent enough to another overhand right after lol

Not the most technical performance by him, but I was very pleasantly surprised by how motivated and fast he looked for a HW
Yeah it was far from a bar fight. Just because there was fast paced aggression... that's not the same thing. It's wasn't like Frye-Takayama. I was very impressed with Mir's defense and overall boxing that night, but obviously Duffee was showing some abysmal technique lol
 
In boxing, you fight in close range a lot and for a lot longer. So these technical little exchanges are much more important and guys get super good at them.

In MMA, you got 2 things going on. First, the effective range of strikes is much wider, so there's much more emphasis on footwork and in-out movement. If a guy was super good in the punching range like Ward, it would be pretty easy for guys to work around that and avoid that range. Second thing is smaller, lighter gloves make the blocks less effective and parries much harder. Ward would still be super sick with MMA gloves and he'd probably KO anyone who stood there and traded with him, but if he relied on the same blocking and parrying he does now, punches would find their way through. But most guys would just strike from the outside and take him down if he tried to close the distance.

It's just the kind of skill that wouldn't form itself naturally in MMA. It could be a useful tool but it could also be worked around, so you'd need to bring more to the table than just that. I tend to think the most effective techniques are the ones that evolve naturally in the sport, not the ones that evolved naturally in another sport. That's like a round peg in a square hole. That's kind of how I feel about some of these techniques. They fit with boxing, but we'll have our own techniques that fit only with MMA that are just as skillful and beautiful. I think the striking in MMA kicks ass, personally. I enjoy the striking in MMA more than the striking in boxing or kickboxing.
 
Having said that Andre Ward says dem Diaz boys have hands.......he is the reason I know Nate Diaz will destroy Conor.

Andre Ward>Conors Camp
Lmao. Remove your av.

You're not a Diaz fan, you're just an overly-excited Conor hater.
 
You don't think a jab can be parried with MMA gloves? You can parry a jab without any kind of gloves.

Hunt parried well in his Struve fight. Mir's KO of Duffy came via a parry counter. It's possible. But Ward's block would not fly in mma. Not sure is parry would either. But that block definitely would not pass in mma. Barry got KO'd with that block.

But honestly, given Ward's natural abilities and fight IQ, I could see him adapting this to MMA if he needed to. He's boxing for the money. If mma offered more money, I could see ward doing just fine.
 


When I see this little example of good boxing by Andre Ward it reminds me of how far striking in MMA has to travel to become good. You could watch 1000 UFC fights and never see something this technical standing.

1)Catch the Jab.
2)Counter straight off the catch with the same hand. "catch and shoot".
3)as soon as he lands the straight he immediately sees his opponent wants to counter with a left hook, so he picks up the same hand he "caught and countered" with and brings it up for defense while simultaneously rolling his head to take power off the punch. the videos stops short but it would have shown Ward coming back with a left hand counter that fell a little short. The coordination and reaction time that it takes to pull this off is ridiculous.

i'm no expert but i'm guessing the blocked punch is a little easier with those giant pillows than it is with the small 4 ounce gloves
 
Are you serious? Andre ward has been undefeated since he was 12 years of age and is probably the P4P best active fighter in boxing right now, he makes other boxers look bad.
GGG would beat him if GGG would quit ducking the fight lol
 


When I see this little example of good boxing by Andre Ward it reminds me of how far striking in MMA has to travel to become good. You could watch 1000 UFC fights and never see something this technical standing.

1)Catch the Jab.
2)Counter straight off the catch with the same hand. "catch and shoot".
3)as soon as he lands the straight he immediately sees his opponent wants to counter with a left hook, so he picks up the same hand he "caught and countered" with and brings it up for defense while simultaneously rolling his head to take power off the punch. the videos stops short but it would have shown Ward coming back with a left hand counter that fell a little short. The coordination and reaction time that it takes to pull this off is ridiculous.


The problem with your comparison is you're using one of the best boxers right now and a guy who is a very technical boxer as an example compared to 1000 mma fights. You can't compare Ward and his skills to lower mma fighters and make that distinction. What you can take Ward and compare him to the top mma boxers in each division which is accurate. The top guys in boxing for the most part are going to have great technical boxing, but if you go down the rankings this isn't the case and they are far less skilled which is the same in mma. Watch the Broner/Theopayne fight from this past weekend and compare the losers skills to mma strikers and you see a big difference between Ward and Theopayne. Although he's still obviously better, the difference isn't as big.

I was watching a Wilder HL video the other day......even the top guys in boxing show examples of some pretty bad technique.

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