An attempt to establish an objective criteria for determining GOAT

[JJCc]

First thing, I'm going to exclude Pride fighters from this (Fedor) not because I don't think they are deserving of GOAT discussion, but the inclusion of multiple organizations would make this even harder to develop a set criteria.

I think if we wanted to have an objective way of determining GOAT, we'd need a point system in place for things done (of course I understand the assigning of the points is subjective).

So for example;

+1 point for a win (+0.5 if split decision)
+1 point for a win over a top 15
+0.5 point for a win over a top 10
+0.5 point for a win over a top 5
+2 point for a finish
+1 point for a decision win where the fighter wins 3 rounds in a 3 round fight (must be unanimous)
+1 point for a decision win where the fighter wins at least 4 rounds in a 5 round fight (must be unanimous)
+3 point for a win in a title match

So for example; Khabib's win over Gaethje would net him:

+1 for win
+1 for top 15
+1 for top 10+ top 5
+2 for a finish
+3 for a title match

Total +8 points towards GOAT

Jones win over Reyes

+0.5 for split win
+2 top 15, 10, 5
+3 for a title

Total +5.5 points towards GOAT


I also think losses should hurt you on the claim towards GOAT; I'd say minus 2 points for any losses.

 

[KID Yamamoto]

I am the goat

 

[melvinj0]

It’s pointless really. There will never be one great of all time because better fighters with always present themselves. It’s just an opinion based thing for people to argue about.

 

[blastoff]

1. GSP
2. Jones
3. Khabib
4. Fedor

Only order that matters

Prime Khabib is the best fighter ever btw

 

[leatherf4ce]

What about deductions for picograms and decisions getting overturned? But seriously, cool idea. I'm at work and don't have time to be going through an entire fighter's career using your system, but truly cool new approach and unique topic.

 

[kflo]

First thing, I'm going to exclude Pride fighters from this (Fedor) not because I don't think they are deserving of GOAT discussion, but the inclusion of multiple organizations would make this even harder to develop a set criteria.

I think if we wanted to have an objective way of determining GOAT, we'd need a point system in place for things done (of course I understand the assigning of the points is subjective).

So for example;

+1 point for a win (+0.5 if split decision)
+1 point for a win over a top 15
+0.5 point for a win over a top 10
+0.5 point for a win over a top 5
+2 point for a finish
+1 point for a decision win where the fighter wins 3 rounds in a 3 round fight (must be unanimous)
+1 point for a decision win where the fighter wins at least 4 rounds in a 5 round fight (must be unanimous)
+3 point for a win in a title match

So for example; Khabib's win over Gaethje would net him:

+1 for win
+1 for top 15
+1 for top 10+ top 5
+2 for a finish
+3 for a title match

Total +8 points towards GOAT

Jones win over Reyes

+0.5 for split win
+2 top 15, 10, 5
+3 for a title

Total +5.5 points towards GOAT


I also think losses should hurt you on the claim towards GOAT; I'd say minus 2 points for any losses.

you can't have objective criteria for something subjective........

 

[The Schmoop]

1. GSP
2. Jones
3. Khabib
4. Fedor

Only order that matters

Prime Khabib is the best fighter ever btw

Goat is the best fighter ever in my mind and that’s why I have Khabib as #1. His resume lacks on paper but his level of dominance against contenders is what sets him apart. Truly a shame he left before his prime. He was still improving when he retired.

 

[chinarice]

First thing, I'm going to exclude Pride fighters from this (Fedor) not because I don't think they are deserving of GOAT discussion, but the inclusion of multiple organizations would make this even harder to develop a set criteria.

I think if we wanted to have an objective way of determining GOAT, we'd need a point system in place for things done (of course I understand the assigning of the points is subjective).

So for example;

+1 point for a win (+0.5 if split decision)
+1 point for a win over a top 15
+0.5 point for a win over a top 10
+0.5 point for a win over a top 5
+2 point for a finish
+1 point for a decision win where the fighter wins 3 rounds in a 3 round fight (must be unanimous)
+1 point for a decision win where the fighter wins at least 4 rounds in a 5 round fight (must be unanimous)
+3 point for a win in a title match

So for example; Khabib's win over Gaethje would net him:

+1 for win
+1 for top 15
+1 for top 10+ top 5
+2 for a finish
+3 for a title match

Total +8 points towards GOAT

Jones win over Reyes

+0.5 for split win
+2 top 15, 10, 5
+3 for a title

Total +5.5 points towards GOAT


I also think losses should hurt you on the claim towards GOAT; I'd say minus 2 points for any losses.

There is no correct answer. Multiple people have a fair claim. It's a pointless argument

 

[Only Here for Attachments]

Never understood why so many people want to quantify MMA

 

[avenue94]

+1 point for a win (+0.5 if split decision)
+1 point for a win over a top 15
+0.5 point for a win over a top 10
+0.5 point for a win over a top 5
+2 point for a finish

What's the point of effectively penalizing split decisions? And conversely, 5 round dominations are far more conclusive than catching a fighter cold in the first minute. Or in practical terms, JDS' win in the first match would be worth more than Cain's win in the second match, even though the latter is a far more impressive and meaningful performance.

 

[Zebra Cheeks]

If it could be done we already would have done it imo

 

[ejlarson249]

1. GSP
2. Jones
3. Khabib
4. Fedor

Only order that matters

Prime Khabib is the best fighter ever btw

I have Kallabeb above Jones. Jones has been busted as a cheat too many times. Eye test is nothing, but a failed test is a failed test. It must taint your legacy.

 

[cooks1]

First thing, I'm going to exclude Pride fighters from this (Fedor) not because I don't think they are deserving of GOAT discussion, but the inclusion of multiple organizations would make this even harder to develop a set criteria.

I think if we wanted to have an objective way of determining GOAT, we'd need a point system in place for things done (of course I understand the assigning of the points is subjective).

So for example;

+1 point for a win (+0.5 if split decision)
+1 point for a win over a top 15
+0.5 point for a win over a top 10
+0.5 point for a win over a top 5
+2 point for a finish
+1 point for a decision win where the fighter wins 3 rounds in a 3 round fight (must be unanimous)
+1 point for a decision win where the fighter wins at least 4 rounds in a 5 round fight (must be unanimous)
+3 point for a win in a title match

So for example; Khabib's win over Gaethje would net him:

+1 for win
+1 for top 15
+1 for top 10+ top 5
+2 for a finish
+3 for a title match

Total +8 points towards GOAT

Jones win over Reyes

+0.5 for split win
+2 top 15, 10, 5
+3 for a title

Total +5.5 points towards GOAT


I also think losses should hurt you on the claim towards GOAT; I'd say minus 2 points for any losses.

No deductions for losses or getting finished? A loss should be at least a 5 point deduction and getting finished should be another 5. With additional deductions for losses to unranked fighters.

Fighting frequency? Points awarded for multiple defenses? Multiple divisions?

A lot of holes in this broseph. A LOT of holes.

 

[BJJ4Tone]

1. GSP
2. Jones
3. Khabib
4. Fedor

Only order that matters

Prime Khabib is the best fighter ever btw

This is the list, tbh. Well done, king.

 

[humdizzle]

everyone has their own criteria. so this will never be solved.

just depends on how much value you put into longevity, title defense, losses, quality of opponents, steroid allegations, controversial decisions.

 

[surrealworlds]

1. GSP
2. Jones
3. Khabib
4. Fedor

Only order that matters

Prime Khabib is the best fighter ever btw

So close...

 

[updowniri]

GOAT is subjective. You have to think about which fighter was actually the best at fighting, or which fighter has the best legacy. Abstract thinking is hard for some people so they claim that P4P lists, GOATs or Best Evers don't exist. Or they try to make these objective measures that fail. Really its just the eye ball test and its subjective and debatable.

 

[JJCc]

What's the point of effectively penalizing split decisions? And conversely, 5 round dominations are far more conclusive than catching a fighter cold in the first minute. Or in practical terms, JDS' win in the first match would be worth more than Cain's win in the second match, even though the latter is a far more impressive and meaningful performance.

Id say finishing ability is better than 5 round domination. Now, there is more luck in JDS koing which is why he probably won’t continuously repeat it and get higher scores.

If someone can constantly KO people vs. someone who can constantly grind people out, I’d put the finisher above the grinder, hence I gave more pts to a finish. The assignment of points is all subjective anyways.

I think a finish should always be the goal so I value it more, lucky finishes shouldn’t matter over the course of a career if the person isn’t a good finisher.

 

[RustyShacleford]

Well come on ts, crunch those numbers so we can find out who the goat is!

 

[acannxr]

First thing, I'm going to exclude Pride fighters from this (Fedor) not because I don't think they are deserving of GOAT discussion, but the inclusion of multiple organizations would make this even harder to develop a set criteria.

I think if we wanted to have an objective way of determining GOAT, we'd need a point system in place for things done (of course I understand the assigning of the points is subjective).

So for example;

+1 point for a win (+0.5 if split decision)
+1 point for a win over a top 15
+0.5 point for a win over a top 10
+0.5 point for a win over a top 5
+2 point for a finish
+1 point for a decision win where the fighter wins 3 rounds in a 3 round fight (must be unanimous)
+1 point for a decision win where the fighter wins at least 4 rounds in a 5 round fight (must be unanimous)
+3 point for a win in a title match

So for example; Khabib's win over Gaethje would net him:

+1 for win
+1 for top 15
+1 for top 10+ top 5
+2 for a finish
+3 for a title match

Total +8 points towards GOAT

Jones win over Reyes

+0.5 for split win
+2 top 15, 10, 5
+3 for a title

Total +5.5 points towards GOAT


I also think losses should hurt you on the claim towards GOAT; I'd say minus 2 points for any losses.

Here's a list of Pride/UFC/WEC Champions with the most top ten ranked wins in their respective divisions:

Summary
Demetrious Johnson: 12
Dominick Cruz: 9
Jose Aldo: 12
Takanori Gomi: 8
Georges St-Pierre: 16
Anderson Silva: 9
Jon Jones: 11
Fedor Emelianenko: 12

Swap Gomi for Nurmagomedov and that would be my divisional GOAT list; I think P4P discussions are pointless.